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Ideas On a New Style of Forum

By Adrian Lee

Category: Web Site and Software Development

Discussion: Forum Software - Problems with Hierarchy

Where This Came From

The issues I'm addressing in this article relate specifically to my experience helping run Cre8asiteForums. The way it has grown and evolved over the last few years is pleasing, but also confusing at times.

If we were to start with a blank slate, using the experience we've gained over the years of running it, I think it would start fairly differently, with some significant changes to how it is now.

The Problem With Current Forum Setups

Basically my problem is hierarchies.

Forums are generally structured in a tree hierarchy format, take Cre8asiteForums for examples.

• Cre8asiteForums
• Website Building
  • Usability
  • Tutorials
  • Site Planning and Preparation
  • etc...
• eBusiness, eCommerce, eLearning and eSociety
  • Online Marketing and Promotion
  • Business and Marketing
  • Internet Law and Ethics
  • etc...
• Search Engines and Optimization
  • Search Engine Optimization (SEO)
  • Google
  • MSN Search
  • etc...
• Vitals
  • Forum Issues
  • Introduce Yourself
  • After Hours
  • etc...

This is a fairly rigid structure and causes problems when you have a post that crosses topics. Take a thread about both SEO and CSS.

The general SEO forum is off in one branch under Search Engines and Optimisation, while the CSS forum is within the Web site Building area.

So, does a post talking about SEO and CSS belong in the SEO forum, or the CSS forum? For best results, it should be listed under both, but in a rigid structure like this, that could only be achieved by duplicating it. Not ideal, and difficult to track properly and deal with in a usable manner, not to mention the database implications.

A Solution

In 2 words, Content Tagging.

Taking a leaf out of the folksonomy book, if, instead of the rigid tree structure, we attach descriptive words to each thread, you get the possibility of tagging one thread with multiple topics. So a single thread could be marked under the SEO and CSS topics.

This method of categorizing posts is popular on blogging platforms already, it is common to have one blog post marked with more than one category/topic, and for it to be listed (without duplication) under all of it's tagged.

Navigation Alterations

Home Page

This would likely have a large knock-on effect to the general navigation of a forum, I am not convinced the normal layout and navigation of forums would be suitable, or at least ideal, under this tagging structure.

Currently most forums have a 'home page' that lists all the different sub forums. You then go into a sub forum, and see a list of threads created in it.

If we were to have a scenario where one thread may be tagged with possibly 5 different topics, you would see it in all 5 different forums.

This could be confusing to people trying to navigate using the usual structure. Using the previous example of SEO and CSS, someone could go in the SEO forum, and read the thread there, then might go back to the 'home page', go in to CSS, and see it listed again.

This would be technically correct, and make sense if you know what's going on, but could be confusing all the same, as well as wasting time browsing a forum that could seem a lot busier than it actually is.

Add on to the fact that many regular forum members don't tend to use that structure anyway. At Cre8asiteForums the "last 72 hrs posts" link is very popular, and I imagine the same would be true of other boards with that functionality. This is a page which lists ALL threads posted to in the last 72 hrs, regardless of which sub forum they are in, in reverse chronological order. Add in the fact that posts you have not read are highlighted, it gives you the ability to quickly see recent posts, across the entire board, which you haven't already seen.

I would be tempted to use this view, or one very similar to it, as the default 'home page' for forums, displaying threads in reverse chronological order, and showing which topic tags they've been given. This again would be very blog like, though I would suggest the design should still be like that of a forum thread listing, rather than blog like. Blog layouts tend to be more the 'post' with comments as a kind of attachment, rather than a proper, all inclusive discussion.

There would need to be some kind of topic filter. Somewhere that allows you to select a topic, and see all threads relating to it. Again, a common blog idea, but one that I would extend to be more 'tick box' based. Where you could select any number of topics, and see all threads that fit any of them, in one list.

Fitting this category selection area in could be tricky, a forum such as Cre8asiteForums could easily have 50 different topic tags, so fitting them in could be tricky.

I think this could be functionality that is well suited to some kind of AJAX implementation. Perhaps a slide out panel with a list of the topics and tick boxes, that can be toggled (much like Opera panels or the Firefox sidebar, but within the page), with live updates on the page using the AJAX interaction.

This would mean people would get the default 'home page' as a list of recent posts, regardless of topic, and the ability to home in on certain topics.

The category selection could even utilise an AND/OR switch, where you look for threads either tagged with any of the chosen topics, or all of the chosen topics (So if you wanted to get info on CSS and SEO as a combined topic, you could use the AND switch, and select CSS and SEO).

Hopefully this would also reduce reliance on the search function to find certain posts. By being able to narrow down a list of threads more easily, it could make finding specific posts a lot easier.

Adding some user personalisation into this idea, members could perhaps save topic filters. They could then have one click access to the listing for their own selected topics. Perhaps they like to keep an eye on discussions regarding CSS and SEO, and so have a saved topic filter with just those 2 selected. Rather than having to go and select both each time, they can click on their saved filter, and access it that way instead.

This could help people focus into specific areas of interest more easily.

Other Benefits

I think the layout alterations could also help people get more involved across topics. Different members have different interests, and on a busy forum like Cre8asiteForums, it can be impossible to keep up with every sub forum. People tend to browse those forums they are more interested in, and mentally filter out some of the others. I myself rarely find time to get involved with the Web Site Hospital for example, and I know I miss out because of it.

By listing all topics displayed on the initial screen, and by having more cross topic tagging, it may help people catch some other posts in topic areas they may not usually monitor, but which they are interested in, and help people become more involved generally.

In forums where the overall topic is fairly broad (like a web design forum such as Cre8asiteForums), I would also hope that it can help people see the bigger picture better. How sub topics interlink together, and how the topics being discussed are not lone entities. Other general topics may get different mileage from this, but web design/development is certainly an area where seeing the whole picture is a big deal.

Room For Traditional Forum Structures

There may be cases where actually some topics require a more static, traditional structure. Admin areas perhaps would suit this, (Though it could also be setup so that if a post is given an admin_only tag, then it would not appear in public areas), where mods and admins use a more structured setup to manage on goings in the public areas. For instance, at Cre8asiteForums, there are mod only forums where we discuss ongoing development and running of the forums, and a place for all spammy and abuse threads/posts to be moved to, among other things.

Sections like that may be better as a separate object, away from the tagging, just listed under a rigid tree hierarchy as it is now.

These are areas where the topics are more clearly defined, and it is unlikely a thread should belong in more than one of them.

Problems To Overcome

Forums with lots of topics could end up with a very large category selection panel. Even looking at Cre8asiteForums, there could be over 50 tags quite easily for the kinds of threads we currently have.

Managing this, and displaying them to visitors in a usable manner could be tricky, indeed it may even require topics and sub topics. Perhaps you would have a topic 'Google', with sub topics such as 'maps', 'gmail', 'search', so that any topics tagged with the sub topic 'maps', is automatically tagged with Google. Then though, it could be relevant to ASK maps, and so you'd end up tagging it with that as well.

In some respects, finding a balance of topic structure would be down to the individuals running the forum, and how they want to separate topics out. The software would need to be able to handle large numbers of individual and, possibly, grouped topics though.

I see this as the main issue involved with this change of architecture, adjusting the UI for ease of use and flexibility.

The AJAX idea for a 'pop-out' menu with the list of topics may well cause accessibility problems, so that may not work very well in that respect unless it can be made to work in all cases. There would certainly need to be a non-JavaScript fall back method which would likely not look as nice, or work as well.

As an overall concept, I think this still needs thinking about and refining, but it could be a step forward in making forum discussions more flexible in line with the kinds of advances Blogs and other user contribution sites are making.

Discuss this article: Forum Software - Problems with Hierarchy

Bio

Adrian Lee helped launch Cre8asiteforums in 2002. He was a member of its earlier incarnation as a web site promotion club. Camaban and Cre8asite Site Admininstrator.

Copyright 2006, All Rights Reserved

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