Well that didn't take long! Options

[NoClue]

Greetings from the Big Apple,

If you wouldn't mind, I would love to hear some feedback on a plan I've been tossing around now for a few weeks.

I'm a complete newb when it comes to online businesses. Other than being an avid web surfer and someone who, like many, have pondered about making money online, I have absolutely no experience in this field. I do have a BA in business, 2 years of law school and about 10+ years in finance.

My plan is to create a series of perhaps 3-6 websites all dealing with outdoor activities, specfically the following:

1. Fishing - content
2. Paintball - content
3. Skiing - content
4. Morotcycles - content
5. An e-commerce site selling outdoor products (clothing, footwear, hardwear etc)

At this point, I'd like to explain why I chose the above topics.

I will be launching the business with my older brother (2 yrs older - he's 41). My brother was/is a cerified skiing instructor and an avid paintball enthusiast. I am an avid fisherman and love motocycles. My father has had an outdoor product related retail store for over 20 years in the same location (my brother and I run the business now). With my father now reaching his retirement age, my brother and I have taken the reigns of the family business and are prepared to take it to the next level. Obviously in the information world, for us this means an online presence.

Having done a little research in this field, I've decided that it is imperative we do something we enjoy - hence the content sites I mentioned above. Interestingly enough, when I started brainstorming for ideas, I was stumped. However, when I started seeing what I was writing down, it hit me like a freight train.

My father has a retail store in outdoor products (due to my father's hard work, we have some very lucrative accounts with nationally and internationally recognized manufacturers). So the plan is as follows:

1. Build sites #1-#4 with good content written by myself and my brother.
2. Develop a trusting audience and work towards building targeted traffic.
3. Start using various methods to generate revenue - affiliates, Adsense, link networks, etc...
4. At some point, build and launch site #5 which will be the online extension of our retail store.
5. The magical step: Once we are up and running (hopefully with some traffic), I intend to place links on all of the above sites to each other - for obvious reasons - better rankings, targeted linking, increase sales in our e-commerce site, etc...

Now, that's the basic outline and of course I have a LOT of work to do from here. I haven't even started the keyword research, haven't decided what path I'll take with the design phase, hosting, marketing firm?...SBI?

Our content sites might end up doing better than the e-commerce site (#5) if our content is good enough. I am keeping my mind open about the performance of these sites and of course I'll be flexible as needed. At this point, though the plan calls for driving traffic to #5.

As much as I wanted to just jump in and waste some money, I needed to hear some feedback from members who might have already been there and done that. Is my plan a decent start or should I AT LEAST do the keyword research step to analyze the supply/demand factor? (Somehow I know there is a market for this, but it may be wishful thinking on my part). I could keep asking more questions, but I may never stop. So let me shut up here and see what kind of responses I get first.

Well folks, thanks for reading my post and thanks in advance for any feedback. Constructive or constructive.


Vince L.

[bragadocchio]

The basics of the plan sound good.

You're getting involved in areas that you enjoy. Four or five smaller sites, and smaller businesses that each cater to specific niche audiences sounds like a good move. You're working with a business that you understand in the bricks and mortar world.

A marketing plan is a good next step. Figure out whw that audience is, and how you are going to reach out to them. What are the business requirements of the sites you are building, and how will you reach out to those people with different features and parts of your sites?

I'm going to throw a couple of sites filled with articles at you to give you another set of tools that you might not have come across yet. I'm a big fan of usability, and found a lot of great ideas from these two sites:

http://www.uie.com/articles/

and

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/

Some other articles like this one:

http://www.grokdotcom.com/calls-to-action.htm

or the three articles on Boxes and Arrows that start with this one

They are the type of things that can get you to look past the html and the copywriting to the subtle things on a page, and the approaches that you can use that make the experience of visiting a site something special and remarkable. Hopefully, looking over some of those will add to your ideas of what you can and should do with your sites.

<edit - typos>

[Respree]

Hi Vince

Looks like you've given this a lot of thought and decided you're nearing a decision. I admire your enthusiasm.

Here is one tool that I used that will help you with keywords. Selecting the right ones to target are essential. I would just start typing in the terms your targeting on a generic level (fishing, paintball, etc) and see where that takes you. It'll show other search terms that were related and help you to measure relative interest and/or demand.
http://www.digitalpoint.com/tools/suggesti...eywords=fishing

Would I be correct in assuming that your first post outlining a budget of $700 has changed? If so, it would be helpful to others wanting to give you feedback if you could state the new budget. If not, I would say that trying to build 5 websites on that budget is near impossible.

I think its great that you are thinking about developing content websites discussing subjects you are passionate about. That's a huge advantage and inspiration for your articles should come much more quickly than someone who has developed a website on say, 'shower curtain rings'.

As a finance guy, I'm sure you can appreciate the importance of having a solid business plan and pre-operating budget in place before starting this venture. From a marketing strategy point of view, I'd say your current plan has potential, but personally, I wouldn't ignore the numbers.

I think one huge advantage with your e-Commerce idea is that you have a brick-and-mortar store (I'm presuming site #5 will offer the same products in your store). It's one less thing to worry about and you've already got the upper hand over the guy starting from zero, who has to obtain trusted suppliers, set up a warehouse, hire picking/packing/shipping personnel, etc. I think with some small adjustments to your physical store operations, you should be able to do fulfillment fine and focus on other operational and marketing activities for your sites.

I built an eCommerce site 5 years ago, basically starting where you are right now. While I did have 20 years experience in retail and accounting, I knew absolutely nothing about building an online store. I too was on a very limited budgeted, financing all the startup costs with my personal savings. So I can relate to your situation. Coincidentally, I started my company with my brother as well.

I made the mistake of trying to save too much money in the beginning. My brother and I did 'everything' ourselves, short of developing the programs needed for our site. Frankly, this strategy spread us too thin and we did not have the appropriate amount of time to focus on one very important aspect -- online marketing. We read a few articles, 'thought' we understood it and felt that was good enough.

We were wrong. Had I known then what I know now, I would have done things differently.

If your budget allows, I would highly recommend sinking a fair amout of your budget on a good search engine marketing consultant; someone you feel comfortable with and one that you can trust. A person like this, in my view, is worth their weight in gold and will be critical to getting your sites off to a good start. They can help you ensure that your site has a good strong foundation for which you're much more likely to get high conversions, drive targeted traffic to your site, avoid glaring SEO errors, and the like.

Hope this feedback helps.

[bwelford]

Having read the thread to this point, a number of thoughts came to mind. Perhaps the following two quotations will introduce my remarks best.

[If] we are all in agreement on the decision . . . then I propose we postpone further discussion of this matter until our next meeting to give ourselves time to develop disagreement and perhaps gain some understanding of what the decision is all about.

and another from that great business thinker, Yogi Berra.

\" When you come to a fork in the road....Take it \"

To help your thinking process, NoClue, let me put up some contrarian thoughts.

My number one advice to anyone is 'Focus, focus, focus'. So select a single market niche where you can supply something to target prospects that no one else can do as well. It should be something that you love to do, nay even be a passion for you, so that you'll get lots of fun as you pour all your energy and enthusiasm into being the best one ever.

As Respree said, the problem that he and his brother had was to have sufficient time to do the important things that need to be done. Without focus, it's easy to be very busy doing lots of stuff that's fun. However you will not create the best business that you are capable of.

You listed involvement with the following niches:
1. Fishing
2. Paintball
3. Skiing
4. Motorcycles

I don't see a common thread there, although I'm sure that you and your father and your brother each have lots of fun in doing these different things. For me, I think your father's retail store is where you've got to start. How do you apply 'Focus, focus, focus' to that?

[Black_Knight]

You listed involvement with the following niches: 
1. Fishing 
2. Paintball 
3. Skiing 
4. Motorcycles 

I don't see a common thread there, although I'm sure that you and your father and your brother each have lots of fun in doing these different things.

I'm not entirely sure that I agree there, but I could be reading in an extra step that wasn't stated, as I'm seeing these as an essential strategy for the 5th site.

What I'm seeing is a 'fishing farm' with four specially constructed and stocked reservoirs for the fifth construction (the business) to feed itself from. I think it is a brilliant idea, because the interest is there, the niches are specific (and familiar), and they all tie in to a need for the supply of outdoor clothes - the business.

Yes, there is a danger of spreading oneself too thinly. Fishing itself is quite a tough (because it is popular) niche, with tons of businesses in the market as specialist suppliers of fishing equipment and clothing. I'd say that it will be essential to examine the niches more carefully. I suspect that Skiing will also be a very tough and competitive niche, with plenty of big and established competition.

The Paintball might be the easiest of those niches, and the one with the most untapped opportunities. All the others will be tough. Tough even as a sole focus, and so much much tougher as just a part-time project.

I like the idea of having the special interest sites to feed customers to the store, but the niches can't be more competitive than the selling of outdoor activity clothing itself is, or it will defeat the purpose.

[NoClue]

Thanks for all the replies folks,

Bill - Thanks for answering my basic question. It verified my views and also gives me some confidence that I'm starting with a decent concept. I agree that a marketing/business plan is the next logical step. At this point, I'm overwhelmed by the amount of information on the web and I'm slowly developing the plan as we speak. I will bookmark the links and keep them safe for future (not too distant) review.

Garrick - Thanks again for your reply. I will attempt to address the points you raised.

Keyword: I will also bookmark your keyword research tool link along with the gazillion others I have for future review. I am not minimizing this step as I realize the importance of this task.

Budget: Yes, the budget has changed but I am not clear at this point what the budget will be. I am in no way disregarding the numbers (as I'm a numbers guy too) and will make every attempt to come up with a sound BP inclusive of the numbers. I will come back to this later in the post.

Current store: I forgot to mention this so I will at this point. My brother has already started selling our products on ebay. He's been selling on ebay for about 6 months now and decent success. He's been selling mainly our overstock inventory and recently has started to purchase specific items for sale on ebay. Having said that, we have a basic fullfillment system set up for this so I think the transition for the e-commerce site won't be as difficult.

"Penny wise and dollar foolish": My brother is the guilty party here. I am not such a person. I've always recognized my shortcomings and have paid for services that were beyond me. Further, since we cannot underestimate the cost of time, I fully intend on coming up with a plan with this issue addressed. An SEO firm or a general internet marketing firm will be one of my primary outsourcing areas.


Barry - Thanks for your thoughts and they are appreciated. Focus, focus, focus...all very good concepts. The prospect of spreading myself out too thin has already occurred to me and I will also address this later in the post. As I didn't want to start a 5 page initial post, I left out some details which I will fill in later in the post for all to see.

Ammon - Thanks for stopping by again to help. You're absolutely correct in your assessment of my plan. As I've mentioned, I will address the "spreading too thin" and the merits (or why I think so) of multiple sites directing traffic to site #5.

For all:

At this point, I am in the conceptual stage. Having said that, I am trying to ascertain what the best path should be. Meaning, should I go with the e-commerce first? Should I have content in the e-commerce site? Should I build the other content pages first as I originally posted? Should I even build the other sites? etc...

Sites 1-4

First, it seems to me it would be easier to builld a content based site rather than an e-commerce site for my first website. This way I can learn along the way and make my mistakes on a website that is not the "primary" website. Making mistakes in all facets of online business, not just the design or marketing but all phases.

Second, I think it will give my brother and I the opportunity to start writing content and get our writing feet wet.

Now for the info I promised:

Getting more specific categories for #1- #4

You folks are absolutely correct about the current categories being too broad. As I said, my initial post was just the basic plan. Here're some details.

Site #1 - Fishing - I live and fish mainly in the northeast. I do not intend on creating another general fishing site, nor another tackle shop. I intend on focusing on one SPECIFIC area of fishing in the northeast. Without doing the keyword research (of course I will verify through keyword research), I know there is a need for this sub-category. How do I know if I haven't done the keyword search? Because I am a fisherman, I know other fisherman, I visit fishing sites, I know most of friends visit fishing sites. I'm frustrated that due to the TOS on all these sites, there is an area within fishing that we are not allowed to talk about in these sites. This is mainly due to the fact that many of their advertisers will not want negative discussions about their company. No this is not a "tackle review" site at all. Further, the sub-cat I am referrring to is not currently being serviced by any site.

Site #2 - Paintball - My brother has been playing for many years now and has become somewhat of an expert. I haven't discussed this with him yet nor have I done any keyword research into this. However, we do carry paintball products in our store and there're many customers who only know how to play, but have no clue about some technical aspects - ie; repairing paintball guns, finding the best supplies, selecting proper gear, especially for the northeast. So once again, I wanted a site that will focus on the hobby in the northeast if not, even a smaller target market like the 5 boroughs of NYC.

Site #3 - Skiing - As I said, my brother was/is a certified ski instructor. Since he has helped me become a better skiier, I don't think he'll have much problems helping others. However, this is a big category so once again, I'm going to narrow the focus. My brother and I have not yet discussed this either and I am open to the possibility that this might indeed be too big to handle. I only posted this because we both love skiing and it seemded to fit within my basic plan.

Site #4 - Motorcycles - My love. Again a broad area to work with. So by talking to myself and other friends who are into the sport, I've narrowed it down to a few sub-cats that are not being serviced at this point. I will not be building a used bike 4 sale site, equipment review site, nor any other sites which are already prevalant. As in the fishing site, I think I have a good idea of where I want to go with this.

Whew!!!

I hope that the info I've given will clarify some of the questions which were raised.

Now...my plan consists of the following:

Create these specific sub-cat content sites and learn along the way. If/when they get some targeted traffic, I want to sign up for affiliate programs within these sectors before I start directing traffic to site #5. I don't see any reason why for example, I can't become an affiliate for motocycle related companies, affiliate for paintball related companies, etc... When I have completed this step, I want to ADD site #5 as an affiliate program to sites #1 - #4 so that my links will point to not ONLY my site #5, but to others as well. Of course I will make sure that the programs I sign up with will not conflict with the product I sell on site #5.

My thinking is that the SE's won't look at sites #1-#4 as just sites created for artificially increasing my rankings if I have links other than for my site #5.

Wow...much info here, so I'll once again stop here and listen to some more feedback.

Thanks very much for reading and I look forward to your replies again,


Vince L.

[Respree]

In terms of where to start, I would suggest cutting your teeth on the content sites.

Best not to overwhelm yourself as you are learning the basics of creating your first site(s).

Additionally, with simple content sites you won't have to deal with:

- A database
- Researching, selecting and implementing a shopping cart
- A security certificate & SSL
- Selecting a gateway
- Selecting a credit card processor
- Potential dynamic page generation issues
- Customer service issues
- Creating store policies
- Product fulfillment
- Inventory management systems and reporting
- Returns
- and the list goes on...


With an online store, you will.

I also think pursuing the 'niche within a niche' strategy is an excellent approach.

[NoClue]

Garrick - Thanks for the feedback. It's much appreciated.

[Caissa]

Why not start with an eBay store? Perhaps build a content site and direct the traffice to the eBay store. If the eBay store prospers that will give you the incentive and experience needed to start an ecommerce site.

Take the articles you write for your content site (I suggest one niche and concentrate) and offer them to magazines and other content sites in your niche. Try to become the expert in one area before tackling them all. You must build trust, the key factor to success online.

In all your areas you are up against some heavy competition. How do you plan to stand out in the crowd?

[NoClue]

Caissa,

We have an ebay store but I haven't thought about a site to direct traffic to it. Something to think about. Although I think of myself as a diehard fisherman and an avid mortocyclist, I doubt a high profile site/magazine would accept writings from me without the neccessary credentials at this point.

As far as standing out in a crowd...I don't intend on becoming the top "guy" in any of the areas. Luckily, one doesn't have to be Bill Gates to make money in technology. That's the approach that I'm taking.

Vince

[Caissa]

Hi,

Without a UPS (unique selling position) or an expert statues in your niche, people have no reason to buy from you.

If you have a content site, how will you gain traffic? If you are not in the Top 10 of the SERPs (search engine results pages) no one will know you exist. On $700 you can not go far (I saw Jill Whalen's rates once, not even half a day).

As far as standing out in a crowd...I don't intend on becoming the top \"guy\" in any of the areas

Then why should I buy from you? Why should I even trust your content let alone your store? The top "guy" is a click away.

[bwelford]

I'm with you, Caissa, 100%.

My image of most Internet markets is like one of those "Where's Waldo?" pictures. There are an incredible number of potential competitors out there. Just do a Google search on keywords that potential purchasers might use to try to find a supplier. If Google finds less than 2,000 web pages, that's still a pretty crowded market place. If Google find tens or hundreds of thousands of web pages, then you really have a problem.

You've got to be able to stand out from the crowd. Ideally if you're different enough, other people will point you out and say, "Hey, do you see that guy over there. He's really cool." It's called creating a buzz. From what I've seen, Caissa has done exactly that in the Internet chess world.

That's why I'm still the contrarian, NoClue. I don't think the content sites are the way to go. I think you'll dissipate your energies. Strategy is tough. It's about making tough choices. What don't I do that I might have fun doing? What will I do where I can be the best as seen by my target market niche? It's exactly what Caissa said.

[NoClue]

Hi Caissa and bwelford,

Thanks for the feedback.

I never said I will NOT have a UPS. I certainy do. Within the four categories I mentioned, I wll be focusing on specific sub categories for the content (I know they are no sites for these subcats). Once again regarding being an "expert", I have no doubt that it will definately help. On the other hand, it's still my belief that one does not need to be an "expert", especially within the categories I mentioned. Further, I also mentioned that I may not pursue all of them depending on the result I get after doing the keyword supply/demand analysis. Also you must have missed the post above when I wrote that my budget is no longer $700. Perhaps in very competitive areas it is imperative to be in the top ten SERP. I don't see this as an impediment within the areas I'm looking into. As an example, although I may not be an expert in the fishing field, I also know that when i do a search for the sub category, there is not ONE site currently covering it.

So in the end, why would people go to my site?

Because there are no sites currently coverng the topics I will be discussing. Although I may not be an expert, I feel I have enough experience and content to offer what people are looking for.

Of course I've been wrong before.

[bwelford]

The Money Budget isn't the resource that is the limiting factor, NoClue. The critical resource is your own time. There are only 25 hours per day, 8 days per week and 53 weeks per year. ... and you've got to have a life as well.

[Caissa]

Don't forget Leap Year! We get an extra day (9 day week). Yippeeee!

[DigitalRoad]

Vince,

"Perhaps in very competitive areas it is imperative to be in the top ten SERP. I don't see this as an impediment within the areas I'm looking into."

It's imperative to be in the top 10 in all areas if you're going to be looking at driving traffic with organic search.

"although I may not be an expert in the fishing field, I also know that when i do a search for the sub category, there is not ONE site currently covering it...
Because there are no sites currently coverng the topics I will be discussing. Although I may not be an expert, I feel I have enough experience and content to offer what people are looking for. "

In effect, by being the only site in your niche category you become the top guy and an expert. It's your site, not you, which becomes the expert or authority on the topic. This assumes you bring to the table a level of experience/expertise, offer useful or compelling content and/or strive to build a community. In fact, your site could become an "expert" even if you had no subject knowledge, experience or content provided you create a framework whereby members can create an authority site.

Jon

[NoClue]

"It's imperative to be in the top 10 in all areas if you're going to be looking at driving traffic with organic search."

This is very disturbing for me as I don't have the experience to know if I'll ever rank that high. Thanks for the input and I'll be sure and do the proper keyword research.

[Black_Knight]

Ah, but if you can make the site convert well, you can effectively buy the rankings with Pay-per-Click search bidding. The thing to ensure is that you can take qualified leads at around 40cents each and convert a high enough percentage of them to make a decent profit.

As a side benefit, the kind of site you build to manage to convert those customers will also tend to do well in the organic listings pretty often.

[DigitalRoad]

Vince,

Ammon makes a great point. You have decisions about what sources you'll target in order to gain web traffic. Using pay for performance advertising you need not worry about optimizing whatsoever. However, you must weigh that with the fact that it's used by a minority of users and has ongoing costs. In fact you don't need to use search engines at all; you can generate your traffic from linking, banner advertising, offline advertising etc. However, if you want organic traffic, you must optimize, and do it so you rank highly. And that means you must make a commitment of your time or outsourcing dollars.

If the upfront dollars are presently too great or the knowledge inaccessible or time-consuming, get creative. You might try a strategy where you begin with ppc, refine your site for conversions, accumulate detailed keyword knowledge, then take profits and invest in seo for your site.

Jon

[Gidz]

my first thought whern reading the initial post was why not do an online store and link it through to the content sites.

I would try to make some connection between your "real store", and the websites, perhaps prividing a way to offer forums, geenral tips etc about whats new and great in say the world of fishing, and link it back to the real store, its not the say that you have to use the site to constantly "plug" your store, on the contrary, you'll recieve alot more legitimacy as a general information site, but as the owner and operator of an outdoors store, it provides a great opportunity for you to pass on advice to amateurs, or even let the experienced outdoorsman, know whats new and great.

It really has alot of potenetial to create a sense of an online community, which i guess not only provides a place for people to explore their passions, but once you have established trust, really will lend itself to a way of gaining extra business.

.