The SEO and Google Options

[ac]

Some webmasters are getting the message and warning others in the trade about Google's complete control of internet search and are fighting back against Google spyware software.

http://www.webpagepros.net/google-toolbar.html

If webmasters take the lead we can defeat this spyware/adware promoting software that Google and the other search engines trap surfers and webmasters with. The above link are not my words but a page I found doing a search.

Every webmaster should join in and fight against transmission of page views to any third party, as this man says we are giving away too much information and our privacy. These tech companies know that data mining profiles on users gives them power and a product that they can sell, the product they sell is a complete information profile on web surfers.

[Ron Carnell]

… as this man says we are giving away too much information and our privacy.

When someone concerns themselves with *my* privacy, doesn't that become an intrusion on my privacy?

[ac]

Can you explain what you are trying to say here Ron, I do not think a lot of folks will get what you are saying.

Can you comment on the web page linked in the first post?

[Tony]

I would have thought the Google toolbar was safe enough to use, if you have something like Ad Aware 6.0 - freeware from Lavasoft - running on a regular basis.

[ac]

It has nothing to do with safety, it has to do with Google having more information on your website and your page views than you do.

It has to do with web users giving Google complete access to their every page view to look at a page rank gauge.

[Adrian]

Ron's point is, that if you're telling him how to handle his private information, are you to invading his privacy?

And with Google, the surfing info is optional, people can turn it off, and if it helps them offer a better product (by helping them work out more accurate, less spam filled sites) then actually, I'm all for it.

Why should you worry that someone knows what sites you've visited? Do you have something to hide?

[ac]

What do you think of the link in post number 1 Ron and Adrian?

[bwelford]

ac, I'm not sure that the extra information that Google gets via the Toolbar changes anything in a major way with respect to the Google advertizing policies as the author of that web page suggests.

If I was Google, as with any other website owner, I would analyze the traffic logs for my own web pages, in other words, the SERP reports that searchers on Google see. From my own data, I can then see what keywords are being used, and what web pages people are then clicking on from these SERP pages I supply them.

What the Google Toolbar allows Google to see is the non-Google web pages that a surfer may visit. This may have a small effect on Google's commercial policies, but it is probably only a very minor effect. Of course it does raise privacy concerns, but each individual must decide their own trade-off between lost privacy and advantages of using the Google Toolbar.

Now-a-days, I can see the Google PageRank within Mozilla Firefox so I don't need it for that. About the only useful help for me is the ability to highlight keywords within a web page I visit. However that isn't enough to encourage me to go back to Internet Explorer. Indeed thinking about it, that is the much bigger hazard of using the Google Toolbar: not the privacy concerns but the constraint that you must use Internet Explorer with it.

[bragadocchio]

Do you recall the address were you got that plugin again, Barry?

I'd guess that anytime your request information from Google about the page rank of a site, you're telling Google where you visited. But I definitely agree with you about your concern for Internet Explorer's problems.

[ac]

What he is saying is that information is power, if Google knows all of this data about every page and keyword that is clicked on. Then they can raise the price of the advertising on those keywords or pages and that may not be good for webmasters in the end.

He just mentioned that he was not going to make it easy and give away the house to Google in this way and is making an effort to get webmasters to take the lead on these issues of privacy and control of the marketplace.

The toolbar is nothing more than a real time MIS data collection tool for Google. Just like Wal-Mart has when you check something out, it reports in real time what was sold, it reorders the item as it adjusts inventory.

Google uses the toolbar to see clearly, they see the data on a real time basis and know which pages get the most traffic and adjust the prices Banner ads on those pages.

You just do not know what they do and can do in the future with this data.

[bwelford]

Bill, I got the Firefox extension to add the PageRank "barometer" via this link:
http://pagerankstatus.mozdev.org/installation.html

[Adrian]

we believe that Google's ability to know what users are doing i.e. typing keywords to check rank, check backlinks, over time allows Google to make supply and demand decisions regarding Keyword Value=AdWords cost, and on and on.

So the idea is that Google would spot the keywords people are checking for rank on most and up adwords cost for them? If its true(though it does sound like people complaining at not being able to get a free lunch), that just penalises the people who spend all their time checking rank or using automated software to do it for them very regularly. I'm not to fussed about that. If the markets are that competitive anyway, I imagine AdWords spending can already be pretty high due the number of people going for it.

Not saying Google aren't going to try and make some profit, thats the whole idea, thats what the people moaning about Google are trying to do as well remember.

The Google toolbar may technically be spyware in that it does monitor whats going on, but its not typical spyware which acts very covertly and is all about tricking the user.

[Adrian]

The toolbar is nothing more than a real time MIS data collection tool for Google.

Personally I think thats just plain wrong. Not saying Google aren't taking some advantage of it, but they are providing some service/tool with it beyond just tracking what people are doing. I think you'd have to be pretty paranoid about their practicies to believe that is the ONLY reason Google have the toolbar at all.

[ac]

Why is it wrong, if the toolbar is a data mining MIS tool that Google uses to get a clear real time view of what Page Rank Junkies are looking at and builds data profiles on click throughs on certain keyword ads why do you say the description is wrong?

Is the truth WRONG?

Does Google tell you what information it is collecting and how they use it today, do they give anyone an indication of how they will use it in the future?

[Respree]

Does Google tell you what information it is collecting and how they use it today <snip>

Yes.
http://www.google.com/privacy.html

<snip> do they give anyone an indication of how they will use it in the future?

No, but they tell you how they use it now. Do you know what you will eat for lunch a year from now? No one can predict the future, so how can they disclose that?

[gravelsack]

Does Google tell you what information it is collecting and how they use it today

No they don't - they give vague statements that do not detail exactly what is collected and exactly how they use it.

I think you'd have to be pretty paranoid about their practicies to believe that is the ONLY reason Google have the toolbar at all.

Why would Google give us a tool that supposedly helps us to do SEO, when SEO damages their results?

Its a smoke and mirrors thing - they want to collect data and need us to install the toolbar to do that. To persuade SEOs (ie the enemy) to install it, they need to appear to be giving us something to make it worthwhile - hence the pagerank bar - there is no other reason for them to give away what, on the face of it, would be useful information for SEOs.

The pagerank bar and backlinks search are just a bit of slight of hand - they are no longer all that useful to SEOs, they just give the appearance of being useful.

Look at what Alexa do with their toolbar and think of all the data that Google could be using to factor into their algo.

[Respree]

"Google collects limited non-personally identifying information your browser makes available whenever you visit a website. This log information includes your Internet Protocol address, browser type, browser language, the date and time of your query and one or more cookies that may uniquely identify your browser."

That's sounds pretty specific to me.

[Adrian]

that Google uses to get a clear real time view of what Page Rank Junkies are looking at

And most of the 'PageRank Junkies" are missing out on half the stuff because PageRank isn't as big a deal as they think it is.

If Google are only picking up information about those people, they are getting a pretty scewed view of SEO.

Besides, what about all the people using the Google Toolbar who aren't using it to check PR and quite probably aren't even into SEO.

To them its providing a useful service in being able to search with Google wihtout having to manually navigate to the page. It would be easier arguing that Google had the toolbar to try and keep as many loyal users as possible. The easier they make it for people to use Google, the less likely they are to go elsewhere.

To me thats a much bigger thing to them than what a certain percentage of SEO's are doing.

[Ron Carnell]

Conspiracy theories can be fun, I suppose, and far be it for me to discourage anyone from having their fun. When they start bugging me to wear aluminum foil hats, however, I draw the line. Do as you will, but paranoia isn't my cup of tea.

I'm not willing to accept someone else's definition of what constitutes "giving away too much information and privacy." It's my information and my privacy. I exchange little pieces of each every day, in return for things like utilities, credit, and meaningful human relationships, just to name a few. It's a free exchange, and in my opinion, it's a fair exchange. Google is no different. They offer me value, they don't try to deceive me, and I won't begrudge them what little they ask in return.

Frankly, I'm much more concerned about all these groceries stores that offer Member's Only prices. Why should someone else get fifteen percent off at Kroger just because they've willingly supplied the store with their name, address and phone number? I have it on very good authority these stores are a front for Jacob Nielsen, who even as we speak is tracking how many people will buy pork chops sans the blue underline.

See? There's not a paranoid bone in my whole body.

[Respree]

Jakob who?

I don't mind my local Von's supermarket tracking how many pork chops I eat each year or that I buy their private label brand products instead of the national ones. They save me $ every time I visit and are one of the more friendlier businesses I patronize. So I'm happy to allow them to analyze my buying patterns and send me a coupon for targeted discounts off the products I like.