Google being unscrupulous? Options

No matter how much some people say that PageRank doesn't matter so much, it does matter. It isn't the most important factor in the rankings at Google but it is important just the same. The best way of increasing a page's PageRank is by getting some inbound links to it, and the higher the linking pages' PR, the more the recipient page's PR is increased. So an inbound link from a high PR page is a very good thing to have. Google have created their system so that having a higher PR is beneficial to rankings.

Is it any wonder that people wishing to advertise on other sites' pages would prefer to advertise on pages with a high PR? And is it any wonder that people would be willing to pay more to advertise on high PR pages? That's the system that Google created.

So up stepped Robert Massa of SearchKing and the PR Ad Network. He decided to price the advertising according a page's PR. Anything wrong with that? Of course not. Website owners are pleased to get more money for ads on their higher PR pages, advertisers are happy to pay more for ads on higher PR pages and the potential customers really don't care one way or the other. It's not immoral, unethical or wrong in any sense. It attempts to deceive nobody and it doesn't attempt to manipulate PR. But Google don't see it that way.

For daring to operate on the basis of PR, Google have given his site a zero pagerank (PR0). They've penalised him without any just cause. His operation does not infringe any of Google's rules but, nevertheless, they have punished him. Why? Presumably because they just don't like it, and that's tantamount to censorship - and damned unscrupulous! There is no excuse whatsoever for penalising the operation. The penalty is immoral and unethical.

In this week's newsletter, Jill put forward a different take on it but she was talking more about the wisdom of Robert Massa's operation and how he should have known the potential harm it could do to many sites on his network. I don't disagree with those views at all. But for Google to penalise a site merely because they don't like, is totally unscrupulous and abhorrent.

Phil.

The best way of increasing a page's PageRank is by getting some inbound links to it, and the higher the linking pages' PR, the more the recipient page's PR is increased.

Does it follow that incoming links from pages with low PR lower your PR?

Does it follow that incoming links from pages with low PR lower your PR?

Definitely not. All inbound links increase PR - assuming that Google has the linking pages in its index.

Phil.

But certainly links from low PR sites don't help much, right? You'd have to get a s**tload of them to make a difference.

This is true. But the PR in many of those low PR sites will increase over time, and an increase will be passed on to you, so don't ignore them.

I should have included in the previous post that inbounds from PR0 sites don't increase PR.

Phil.

I should have included in the previous post that inbounds from PR0 sites don't increase PR.

How can you tell if a site has been assigned the PRO status from Google? Is PRO status necessarily applied to the whole site?

Thanks,

Jeff

How can you tell if a site has been assigned the PRO status from Google? Is PRO status necessarily applied to the whole site?

If you have the google toolbar installed, a PR0 page is shown as all white in the PageRank bar. I believe that a PR0 penalty is applied throughout the domain but others may correct me on that.

PhilC

I finally got ready to install the google toolbar, found the link, and when I got there, all the info on specs said WINDOWS. I use a MAC. Anyone know if the toolbar works in the MAC environment?

Diane

Not to stir the s***, but this is quoted directly from the Googletoolbar TOS:

Personal Use Only 
Google Toolbar is made available to you for your personal, non-commercial use only (at home or at work). You may not modify, copy, publish, license, create derivative works from or sell any information or software associated with Google Toolbar, without first obtaining written permission from Google by contacting toolbar-feedback@google.com or any third party licensor who make its software available through or in conjunction with the Google Toolbar. Furthermore, you may not use Google Toolbar in any manner that could damage, disable, overburden, or impair Google's search services (e.g., you may not use the Google Toolbar in an automated manner), nor may you use Google Toolbar in any manner that could interfere with any other party's use and enjoyment of Google's search services.

Also, from Google's TOS:

You may not use the Google Search Services to sell a product or service, or to increase traffic to your Web site for commercial reasons, such as advertising sales.

Legally, I believe that Pagerank is part of the Search Services. Selling links is not a problem, that has always been done. Selling PR is shaky ground.


This is not censorship - Google is protecting its patent, copyright, and potential misuse of a public service.

I finally got ready to install the google toolbar, found the link, and when I got there, all the info on specs said WINDOWS. I use a MAC. Anyone know if the toolbar works in the MAC environment?

Diane

I don't believe it works for a Mac.

Thanks Jill,

At least now I can remove that task from my TO DO list

Every little bit helps!

Diane

Bottom line is that it's Google's game - and they can play it anyway they wish.

If you think they really care about any particular website - you are pretty much wrong.

What they care about is providing pertinent results to their users. That is their perceived value and service. If they don't provide this, or they loose this value in their search results. They are dead.

So - the bottom line for them is that the gentleman selling high PR advertising was jeopardizing their results. Jill was spot on with this. Google also was nice enough to warn him. He ignored it.

The users he sold to got caught. But - does not being informed save you from the law? No. I say that this is also the case. However - each individual client does have the right to Sue this businessman under something like his failure to do what he promoted. However, he'd probably win with a simple statement of "The rules changed" sorry.

Anyway - any system developed will be taken advantage of. Google's just moving the target as people get savy and take advantage of their system. They will continue to do so as they improve and design.

I don't believe it works for a Mac.

It doesn't work on a Mac, but if your Mac can run Virtual PC (which any G3 or higher can), you can install it in IE within Virtual PC. Better yet, buy a cheap PC (I just got a decent one with monitor for $60).

This is true. But the PR in many of those low PR sites will increase over time, and an increase will be passed on to you, so don't ignore them.

Although if you have to get them my linking back, you may be loosing more PR than you gain, and risking linking to a site which may, without your knowing it, get a PR0.

Although if you have to get them my linking back, you may be loosing more PR than you gain, and risking linking to a site which may, without your knowing it, get a PR0.

You will indeed lose PR by exchanging links with lower PR sites. There's nothing you can do about linking to a site that later gets the PR0 penalty, except remove the link when it happens. If you allow that to be a consideration, you won't link to any site.

Bottom line is that it's Google's game - and they can play it anyway they wish.

Only within the law (I'm not suggesting that what they did is illegal).

If you think they really care about any particular website - you are pretty much wrong.

I didn't suggest they did.

So - the bottom line for them is that the gentleman selling high PR advertising was jeopardizing their results. Jill was spot on with this.  Google also was nice enough to warn him.  He ignored it.

No he wasn't. From what I've understood, he wasn't selling links. He was selling advertising space and pricing it according to the page's PR - sort of like charging more for advertising in a publication that has a greater readership - standard stuff.

Also, from what I've read, he wasn't contacted by Google so they didn't warn him. If you know otherwise, please show me where to look. I'd appreciate it.

This is true. But the PR in many of those low PR sites will increase over time, and an increase will be passed on to you, so don't ignore them.

Although if you have to get them my linking back, you may be loosing more PR than you gain, and risking linking to a site which may, without your knowing it, get a PR0.

And therein lies the problem with even thinking about, looking at, or worrying about PageRank.

Just find sites that you like, and link to them. And if there's sites out there that seem like they'd be willing to link to yours because it's a good fit, then make them aware of yours and tell them that a link to you might fit nicely with the other links they have.

Don't let PageRank considerations change the way you would normally link, if PageRank didn't exist (or if you never heard of it).

Seriously. You and your site will be much better off.

Jill

he wasn't contacted by Google so they didn't warn him

Why should they contact him?
What makes him so special?

I would think the TOS speak for themselves, the impetus was on him and he failed. He "bit the hand that feeds."

sort of like charging more for advertising in a publication that has a greater readership - standard stuff.

Except he didn't own the magazine, the product, or the subscribership.

SEO Guy has already answered the whole issue with the quote from Google's Toolbar TOS

[quote]Personal Use Only
Google Toolbar is made available to you for your personal, non-commercial use only (My note: You may not use the toolbar in any commercial manner, e.g. determining prices)

Searchking broke the contract by which they installed and used the Toolbar. They got caught and indeed courted the wrath of Google by deliberately and openly flaunting their abuse of the toolbar and the breaking of the TOS. Personally, I think Searchking have only escaped a heavy law suit by nature of how complex the PR system may be for a law court to fully understand, and that a suit would be a risk that Google don't need to take.

One would hope that Searchking have since had the decency to uninstall the Toolbar that they no longer have permission to use (broken TOS), but somehow I doubt it.

Thank you Ammon,

My thoughts exactly; the PR penalty is the least of his worries.
If he keeps this up, there could be wider (legal) implications.