Websites Are Not All About Seo And Marketing, (Non SE Friendly "Pretty Websites") Options

[send2paul]

On another forum (!) I made this comment:

...the website is a showcase for their talents, (web address on business cards, emails, letters etc). So, the fact that no-one can find them through a search engine is irrelevant to them.

Some of the people I am talking about are:
1. Artists
2. Graphic artists
3. All those who want a showcase that can be easily accesed by others.

Wesbites are not just about SEO & marketing..

And I wonder sometimes if, (even if their desired marketing technique is to use business cards, emails, letter heads, flyers etc), that visitors here to Cre8asite with Website Hospital reviews, for example, are not looking for the "wham-bam-thank-you-mam" approach to their website - but really want some guidleines on how to use software, coding etc to "make their websites look pretty", as opposed to a thorough dragging over the coals for not having keywords/SEO etc etc?

I'd be interested to hear from any artists, graphic artists with websites.

Paul

This post has been edited by send2paul: Dec 19 2006, 02:02 AM

[ukdaz]

Paul

I agree - I have clients who only promote their websites on their business cards and they still get traffic from those who pass the cards on and the site generates enquiries for them...

Depends where your market is I guess...

Daz

[A.N.Onym]

I'd say that a user and SE friendly website can show off an artist's work better than an unusable and non-SE friendly website. Especially, if it can get some amount of organic traffic and clients in there (assuming the site owner needs clients).

[fisicx]

Absolutely, if the artist's site is visually stunning but so difficult to use then potential customers may be put off by the design.

But you also don't want to lose the showcase possibilities with a a functional but ugly site (imagine a top clothes designer using a site-in-a-box package).

As always, one needs balance.

[bwelford]

.. but how sad not to use the astonishing potential of the Internet. It allows people you would never have thought of to find your website and make the connection. It's so easy to do some of that.

Otherwise why not give them a CD of your website when you see them. You can have much more control and deliver a guaranteed user experience. They may even be more impressed.

[Brad]

There is something to be said for following your muse. I don't think we realize how much optimizing for search engines has warped our view of what is a good site and what fills human needs not the needs of search engines and engineers.

Sure usability, spider-ability, indexable text are all great things but some things like art are not meant to be practical and utilitarian. I'm not so sure that our quest to optimize pages for search engines isn't turning the web into some vast virtual parking lot paved with asphalt.

[A.N.Onym]

Brad, even if you pave your website with images (back and fore-ground), you can make that thing accessible or not. That might make some difference.

Not to mention the site navigation and page titles. They all can make the site more visible from the search engines.

Essentially, usability and SE friendliness isn't aimed to hurt a site look. On the contrary, mostly, site looks better, if it is more usable.

[Brad]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking usability, SE friendliness, good navigation and the lot, but that may not be what the webmaster wants or needs. I'll give you two examples: sometimes the website is the art or part of the art, it may not be what I like but I'm not going to tell some web-Picasso (s)he cannot create that art according to their own motivations; also, if you look at many Hollywood movie sites done by the big studios, they are in Flash and only the index page gets spidered and no HTML version is available. In short, all the things we generally tell webmasters to avoid. But it works for the studio's because they want the webstie to supplement their print, television, PR (the other kind) campaigns. Moreover they want to control the experience and have visitors enter through the Index page and not willy-nilly via any sub-page. And they also want to make their content harder to copy, hence Flash.

As long as they understand that the search engines are really bad at indexing that sort of thing then fine let them do what they want.

In the broad view the mainstream is only defined by those who step out of it. (So long as they don't whine as to why they are not getting any SE traffic.)

[Ron Carnell]

Websites Are Not All About Seo And Marketing

Duh? Who in the world ever said they were?

If you find the perp, be sure to give them a good solid slap upside the back of the head. Claiming web sites are all about SEO and Marketing is about as inane as ... as ... well, as claiming they are all about artistic merit.

[egain]

Well said Ron.

This post has been edited by egain: Dec 19 2006, 10:40 AM

[joedolson]

Although it's not 100%, to a large degree the visual aspects of a website can be completely divorced from the code. A site can be well and honestly optimized for search engines, have decent accessibility, and decent usability and be visually absolutely whatever you want. Getting the back-end right, however: the underlying structures and navigational schemes, is critical.

Designing the visual to be whatever you can imagine is quite likely to cause some usability problems, if you're aiming for extremely low contrasts or extreme minimalism, using abstract symbols in place of words, etc. But this isn't to say that the site can't be done as well as possible within that visual limitation.

A fairly recent thread where a member was asking how difficult it would be to replicate a certain Flash site is brought to mind. The site, though fairly standard template kind of look and feel, was well designed (visually). It looked pretty good; had strong visual appeal, and could have been a decent site. However, the underlying code was hopelessly poorly written: massively invalid HTML with keyword stuffed hidden text and noscript tags. If the underlying code had been well-written, this same site, without any change to the visual impact at all could have been a great site.

I think an artist needs to create a site which will effectively transmit their artistic concepts and messages, and they can certainly get away with disregarding some of the basic principles of usability we'd expect to create a strong artistic impression. However, sloppy code shouldn't be part of any artist's artistic message.

[send2paul]

Interesting selection of replies!

The main reason I asked this question was because I was tasked to "do" an artist's website recently, and I was all set with my "Amazing List Of SEO Things To Do" - in particular to get some text on the website to make it a bit more searchable.

But the owner didn't want text - prefering a much simpler/plain design which showed off the art work. The website was to be mainly promoted by business card, and going to other art exhibitions - that kind of "arty world".

I have to say, it was a bit of a struggle, because it goes a bit against the grain as it were, NOT to be attempting the "best" I could do to make the website "found" in search engines, at least for some words.

Anyway, in the end, the website was done - and sits there..... advertised on business cards etc etc. And, as a "learning experience" I've learnt that there is a market in designing websites for artist's work - but not one I would venture down too quickly again

Paul

[ukdaz]

Paul

Thats interesting as thats what happened to me about 4 years ago with an artist website that I did!

I work with a lot of photographers websites and its always a battle to convince them that text on the page is highly important when their work is sold on the power of their images.... most listen and let me sort for them but its always harder when some of they say they only want images on their home page....

Daz

[rmccarley]

Not having a minimum level of accesibility or SEO-friendlyness on a page is complete nonsense* and any web developer that tells their client that throwing those things out is ok is doing everyone a grievous disservice.

It ain't rocket science, kids. It isn't even that much extra work or expense. There is no good reason to cheat* a client out of traffic or cheat* a viewer out of the experience.

But I suppose that's the difference between being a pro and being some guy with a laptop and book on HTML.

*Everyone is a web designer*

Not that I feel strongly about this...

[*edited to remove strong langauge - send2paul moderator]

This post has been edited by send2paul: Dec 20 2006, 01:32 AM

[A.N.Onym]

Nah, you don't feel strongly about it at all

[rmccarley]

"Cheat" was the word I was trying to think of!

Thanks Paul for setting that strait.

Anyway, I just think it is irresposible of a web developer to not guide their clients toward a solution that fits all their needs, especially the ones the client may not be aware of. That's what we get paid for... our knowledge.

Making it ok to drop standards hurts the industry in adition to the damage done to the client's site. At best it hurts the brand.

[cre8pc]

But the owner didn't want text - prefering a much simpler/plain design which showed off the art work. The website was to be mainly promoted by business card, and going to other art exhibitions - that kind of "arty world".

I think it shows a certain level of maturity and expertise when someone skilled in SEO and web design can accept a client's request to not do something like "add too much content".

One approach when faced with it is to make sure the client is educated on the possibilities of what can be done SEO-wise and why. Target market is explored and I'm sure the client is convinced they believe they know who that is. We, on the other hand, are well aware that this is the Internet and ANYONE can find a website, even if they aren't the intended target user.

This is when persuasive design comes in. Educate the client on these odd chance opportunities that their site will be found willy nilly and sheesh, what if that visitor likes what they see? They may want to buy the artwork or make contact. So the design must still incorporate ways to make that possible and most often that way comes in the form of content.

In my mind, an artistic site can rock the art by presenting both the visual and the art of writing that paints a picture, touches a visitor emotionally, etc.

It's not that content is bad. It's how it's implemented. Creative writing can supply both the SEO and the conversions elements.

Otherwise, the point I wanted to make, is to make sure the client is presented with all angles and possibilities and ramifications. Should the site fail to perform as they wish, you can review your solutions that you had presented earlier and begin to feed in some of it to improve site performance.

A lot of people simply don't understand the nature of the Internet beast. They need a demonstration.

[Brad]

I have to say, it was a bit of a struggle, because it goes a bit against the grain as it were, NOT to be attempting the "best" I could do to make the website "found" in search engines, at least for some words.

I agree on this Paul, it does go against the grain, but you did the right thing, told the client about the options but ultimately they are paying the bills so you have to do what they want.

I get a lot of artist sites, both amateur and pro, that submit to my scifi directory and darn few of them will ever do well in the search engines for the reasons stated and frankly SE's are the last thing on their mind. They are marching to a totally different drummer.

[tam]

I built a site for a photographer where this came up. She planned to only market via magazines/business cards etc. and wasn't at all interested in search engine traffic. Whilst discussing building the site flash v. html etc. she was adament SEO wasn't at all important and we made design choices based on that (with me making frequent disclaimers that such and such would ruin seo). Anyway finished off the site, looked great, owner happy. Then I guess it sunk in that by ignoring the search engines you were cutting out potential customers... much more difficult to do SEO at that stage!

I guess it really depends on the purpose of the site. If you're trying to attract customers, the more people that see it the better. I guess if, for example, it's targeting just your existing customers/contacts then not having it found via SE's might not be an issue. If it's a personal site you might prefer it not be found by search engines at all.

Tam

[bragadocchio]

Hi Tam,

It's good to see you.

I think that this may be the third time I've used this Brian Eno quote in the forums, but it's one of my favorites:

I talk to many young painters, because I teach in art schools. I ask them: Why do you think that what you do ends at the edges of the canvas? Think of the frame. What frame are you working in? Not just that bit of wood 'round the edge, but the room you're in, the light you're in, the time and place that you're in. How can you redesign it? I would say that to musicians, too. I see them spending a lot of time working on the internal details of what they're doing and far less time working on the ways of positioning in in the world. By \"positioning it\" I don't only mean thinking of ways of getting it to a record company, but thinking of where it could go, and where it fits into the cultural picture -- what else does it relate to?

A painter or photographer or sculptor or other artist has to consider not just the work that they've created, but also how and where and when they present it to others. When they turn to a web designer to put something on the web, they've done so because of the knowledge and vision and experience of that designer, which goes beyond just how the works will look on web pages, but may also include how to get search engines to visit the pages and have something to index.

Part of the process of showing an artist what might be possible may include showing them a number of sites that display artworks well, and still are capable of being found easily in search engines. Sure, there are people who may insist on pages that are barely more that titles, a very little text, and a lot of images. In those instances, helping them make an informed choice is sometimes the only thing that you can do.