How To Find A Good Seo/m Firm, Without a massive contract Options

[Brandon_Cstone]

I'm trying to talk my employer in to hiring a temporary SEM firm to get us pointed in the right direction. We have a lot of stuff to fix on the SEO side and I'm trying to get them done as fast as possible, but I don't have much clue at all on the SEM aspect. I don't know where to market and even how to market so that we can expand our customer base. I feel that we have a great framework laid out, but our advertising is being spent in the wrong places and it's not helping our online business like it should. I would also like a SEM that would teach us how to do proper keyword research and more specifically how to discover the long tail keywords for our niche.
I read a lot of blogs and I know a lot about the heavy hitters via their blogs (SEOmoz, Aaron Wall, etc.), but I do believe that their contract prices would be out of our reaches (thought I've never contacted them). I don't know what our price cap is because that's not our decision, but I know of at least $1,500 a month we could free up and not miss IMO. I know there are millions of SEO/M firms out there... how do I choose?

Quick site facts:
Our site is already #1 in our keyword, and places highly for some others.
We have over 100,000 visits a month.
I'm an in house developer for them so changes could be made quickly if needed.
Our traffic and orders are well documented, so this would probably make a great case study!

[bragadocchio]

Hi Brandon,

How much do you know about the different paid search options out there? How comfortable do you feel like talking with an agency about what they can and can't do for you?

If you haven't spent any time looking at the tutorials that the search engines offer on paid search, that's a good place to start, so that you can hold an intelligent conversation with someone offering those services. They do all have a number of pages, booklets, and multimedia files to look at to help you learn more.

If you go through those, and take some notes, so that you can ask some questions when talking to an SEM firm, you may feel more comfortable in your choice.

[Brandon_Cstone]

That's my biggest problem; I don't know anything about PPC and affiliate programs. I have never spent cash on rankings, so it's all be organic techniques. I know that it's probably the slowest way to gain rankings, but maybe I'm just poor . Now the site I'm asking about does spent a lot of money on PPC campaigns each day, but I don't deal with those, that's another person's task to manage.
I know the basics and the concepts, I just don't know first hand which is better (in fact no one in my company would know because we've only used one). All I know about them is what blogs have said about them. Is there any place that has a good break down of Google, Yahoo, MSN and Azoogle all in one place? If I understand it correctly, those are the top 4.

[bwelford]

Brandon
I think it's very important to have the PPC efforts and the organic SEO work in concert. You can learn a great deal from the PPC results that will allow you to improve your SEO particularly if you have a way of measuring conversions to sales rather than just traffic to web pages. Installing Google Analytics, which is free, is a particularly useful way of learning more on what visitors are doing on your website.

As far as the shares that different search engines have, another aspect to this is the demographics of their users. This is difficult to pin down but highly technical audiences may tend to use more Google whereas teenage audiences may tend to use more Yahoo!

I think it's important to try to find someone you can trust to help you in making choices here.

[A.N.Onym]

Brandon, you can try going without a SEM by learning some simple things, such as:
- you need to understand your target audience (learn about them blogs, forums, competitor products' customer reviews, etc)
- research the market (learn keywords at http://freekeywords.wordtracker.com, find your competitors and see what they target, etc)
- write great (informational, educational, entertaining) articles on the topic, keeping the keywords in mind (most likely, on your company/product blog)
- develop tools, audios, videos for your target audience
- communicate via your company blog, a forum (and also on other industry blogs and forums)
- let others, interested in your topic, know of what valuable resources you have on your site

As you have a good site already, you can focus on just researching keywords and creating pages, based on popular keywords and phrases, be it for product descriptions or articles.

Also, simply making sure all text on a page (and in the code) is only relevant to this particular page should help.

This is all pretty simple and you should be in great position to do that, if you know what you are selling and who might be interested in that.

If you don't have time or desire for all of the above (like you know you'd be more efficient, if you focused on your core responsibility), I'd recommend trying out all the ways you can think of to get a referral:
- ask your friends, co workers, who have worked with a SEO
- ask some SEO blog author to recommend a couple of SEOs (or maybe even hire the author, if he/she's available)

Other than that, you can very well check out forum members, who post in the SEO forum, see their advice and check if they offer any services (it is mostly obvious from the signature).

This post has been edited by A.N.Onym: Feb 16 2007, 12:12 AM

[Jexley]

Hey Brandon. From my experience, hiring anyone to do any sort of marketing for you involves one thing first and foremost. They need to understand You.

Your company (a brief background even), your Products (obviously), and your clients (this one is toughest).

Once they understand who you are and what you're trying to sell, then they need to combine your client demographic research with some of their own, and then provide you with some sort of strategy.

Good, reputable SEOs should be able to give you a rough idea of what they'll charge and a reasonable liklihood of success for some targeted keywords. Some will even throw you some KW analysis for free too (like we do).

If it's not being used for Paid Search at all, then $1500 should be more than adequate for some organic SEO for most firms I can think of (including mine).

Good luck man.

[DONMAC]

A massive bone of contention, this SEO thing. There are some who consider the entire concept as B-S; while there are others who live by it. Personally, I have serious doubts.

'Novosibirsk' gave some excellent advice, as did others. Whoever you choose to do SEO for you, require that they prove their claims of success. Get testimonials from 'satisfied' customers.

Whomever your company choses to do any kind of marketing and advertising, compel them to learn your business inside and out. And, if any candidate for your business uses the term 'branding' repeatedly... fire them. That's superficial marketing and will result in your company paying a lot of money for nothing. I've attached a marketing white paper which may be of help to you.

- Don

[bragadocchio]

Hi Donmac,

Welcome to the forums.

What kind of doubts are there that you have, when it comes to SEO?

There are a few people who frequent the forums here who provide SEO services. Maybe we can learn something from your perspective on the subject.

Thanks.

Good to have you join us.

[DONMAC]

The doubts cast by clients who are written up in Advertising Age magazine, and the doubts that eminate directly from Google's advice to web marketers -- Google advice that calls for clean, straightforward, quality site content as sufficient.

[bragadocchio]

...and the doubts that eminate directly from Google's advice to web marketers -- Google advice that calls for clean, straightforward, quality site content as sufficient

Google does say in their guidelines and questions section that there is value in SEO, but they do have a lot of warnings about hiring the wrong SEO firm.

In response to the following questions:

What's an SEO? Does Google recommend working with companies that offer to make my site Google-friendly?

Google states the following.

SEO is an abbreviation for "search engine optimizer." Many SEOs provide useful services for website owners, from writing copy to giving advice on site architecture and helping to find relevant directories to which a site can be submitted. However, a few unethical SEOs have given the industry a black eye through their overly aggressive marketing efforts and their attempts to unfairly manipulate search engine results.

The page does give a lot of warnings and disclaimers, and things to look out for when hiring an SEO firm, but it does note immediately that SEOs can be helpful to site owners.

Google's participation in conferences geared towards search marketers and SEOs also are the key to many of the improvements found in the services that Google offers. An excellent example is their interactions at the very recent London Search Engine Strategies, which Google Employee Vanessa Fox talks about on the Official Google Webmaster Central blog here:

Come see us at SES London and hear tips on successful site architecture

The doubts cast by clients who are written up in Advertising Age magazine

I'm sorry to hear about stories of troubles written about in Advertising Age. I also see an article in their 2006 marketing annual that dives into providing SEO tips for people marketing on the Web, so the magazine can't be completely against SEO.

[DONMAC]

Ad Age isn't against SEO; as they try to maintain something akin to objectivity, Bill. It's the Fortune 500 people who comment to the magazine's reporters who do the complaining. SEO is sort of like heaven -- you know there's something there, but it's very hard to scientifically prove it.

So, Bill, how is the public perception of SEO to be footed on more solid ground?

[bragadocchio]

So, Bill, how is the public perception of SEO to be footed on more solid ground?

I'm not sure if the majority of the public even knows what SEO is, or even cares.

There may be a percentage of the population who will always associate SEO with the scammers and spammers that use the name to sell useless and unnecessary services such as submissions and resubmissions to thousands of search engines, or "guaranteed top rankings".

There are also many Web design and hosting companies that sell "SEO" services that really aren't, and don't have the technical and marketing knowledge to provide what they offer.

Changing perceptions is something that often happens one person, one business, one relationship at a time. People with problems complain, and people who are very satisfied, while competing with other businesses online, often don't discuss things like how they achieve success with things like SEO.

There are some exceptions though. For instance, IBM is pretty clear on their stance on SEO:

SEO creates accessible and usable Web sites

Good SEO practices make your site more usable and more accessible, as well as search engine friendly. However, aggressive SEO marketing firms using spammy black hat SEO techniques have given SEO a bad name. But this is true of any type of marketing: There are good ways and bad ways to promote a product, and sometimes the bad ways work -- but only for a little while. Scamming the search engines through black hat SEO techniques is a dangerous road to take and leads to a bad user experience. That's why this series only focuses on white hat SEO practices. With white hat SEO techniques, you and your users benefit. It's a win-win situation.

SEO is crucial for commerce sites

If your business is online, your survival depends on getting your Web site noticed. People can't buy from a commerce site they can't find. And it isn't just a matter of potential customers finding your main page and navigating through the drop-down menus, links, and what-have-you on your site. It's no longer the case that if you have a good main index page, then people will come to your site and continue to navigate through until they find the answer.

Fortunately for many of the smaller businesses online, many of the Fortune 500 aren't investing in SEO, and could really use it. A quick tour through the pages of Citigroup, Ford Motor Company, and Wal-mart show some missed opportunities, and a misunderstanding of some best practices when it comes to SEO.

[egain]

Completely agree Bill

I have blogged a number of times on my blog about the amount of "Wannabe" SEO services out there, where it really is nothing but extended web design, with no thought as to domain strategy, structure, linkage or content, just a couple of meta tags here and there.

[A.N.Onym]

The fact that some people get burned while not carefully choosing a SEO doesn't fully show that the industry is about. You do try to pick your car wisely, right? Do the same with your SEO company/in-house SEO or a contractor.

I have lately discussed local SEO/market situation, where businesses don't invest in serious SEO efforts on a local blog. While the problem is different, the answer is the same: deliver quality SEO services and actually do get noticed (including from the SERPs). That's the only way to bring the SEO reputation back - otherwise people will be getting ripped over and over.

I hate to think of an idea of having some regulatory institute, as it'd ruffle everyone's feathers, but there, perhaps, needs a way the industry can clean itself of scammers, as they can live by deceiving others for a while.

That being said, I understand the frustation any company seeking SEO feels while trying to find a good one. I apologize for all the scam you have to sift through until you get the one that delivers you the results. It'll take time for the minority of SEOs to get things done right, so any amount of patient will be appreciated.

This post has been edited by A.N.Onym: Feb 19 2007, 09:15 PM

[egain]

I know what you say about the regulatory institute but personally seem "seal of approval" would really go along way to creating confidence in teh SEO product to the wider public, and not paid bodies such as SEMPO where the focus is not on capabilities but on how much you wish to pay.

In marketing, you have various qualifications which backup what you can do, CIM, etc, however SEO has nothing of the sort, and is made up of a motley crew of experienced experts, intermediaries and quite a large "wannabe" aspect.

Really as an industry, shouldnt we be pulling together in order to adress this. I can't help thinking done right, it woudl raise the profile of SEO (from the so-called black art) to a respected aspect of the marketing mix

[DONMAC]

egan nailed it:

"Really as an industry, shouldn't we be pulling together in order to address this. I can't help thinking done right, it woudl raise the profile of SEO (from the so-called black art) to a respected aspect of the marketing mix"

As a long, long time marketing and advertising professional, I will tell you now that SEO is a marketing disaster. Not the technical concept, but the marketplace (public) perception of it.

Those of us in the business are bombarded with e-mail offers of different SEO applications for purchase - each claiming to be better than the competition. Then, there are the solicitations from various SEO businesses offering to 'get the job done', some even guaranteeing placement within search page one - first ten listings. As we are well aware, hundreds of customers cannot be squeezed into the first ten listings.

The SEO concept is murky at best. What is needed is a benchmark source of SEO objectivity, that would address egan's above statement; something long the lines of WASP and its promotion of web standards. SEO needs to be clearly and logically explained to SEO prospect consumers in an unbiased manner. It comes down to this: either the SEO concept works, or it doesn't. If it works, show us how it works and be able to prove it.

Recently, I inquired of an SEO business in the United Kingdom how the concept worked and could they provide proof of their claims. Their curt reply said it all: "Haven't you got something better to do than waste other people's time?" Whoever responded was a charm school drop-out, and therein is one of the missing, vital links for many SEO operations: the lack of professional customer service.

Don

[A.N.Onym]

Don, maybe you could elaborate what else prevents the public from realistically assessing the potential of quality SEO? What do the people need to believe SEOs?

However, I guess the main thing to do, as I said earlier somewhere, that proven results is the best way to prove anything.

[SEOigloo]

Those of us in the business are bombarded with e-mail offers of different SEO applications for purchase - each claiming to be better than the competition. Then, there are the solicitations from various SEO businesses offering to 'get the job done', some even guaranteeing placement within search page one - first ten listings. As we are well aware, hundreds of customers cannot be squeezed into the first ten listings

Unforunately, this is all too true and what we hear from our own clients frequently. Our favorite is that they write to our clients telling them that their website contains A FATAL ERROR!

That being said, Donmac, what you are likely experiencing is the work of overly-aggressive companies who do not have the clients to enable them NOT to do this type of solicitation. You are not going to see the real experts in this field employing such tactics. They are too busy, as it is, working with Fortune 500 companies and winning huge profits for their clients.

However, when people are starting out in this industry, they have to begin getting clients somehow. There is nothing wrong with a new company doing complimentary site reviews and sending a proposal to improve a website that needs help. There is everything wrong with using lies, fear, and bogus claims to convince people to give you money. Those who engage in such practices are not legitimate SEOs...they are frauds.

It's such a pity fraud has given what is a genuinely good and useful industry a black eye in this way, and I can certainly sympathize with you coming away from what you've read and how you've been approached with the feelings that something is not right. The key now is to become a good judge at which businesses are legitimate and which aren't.

Thank you for posting so honestly about your experience with this.
Kind Regards,
Miriam

[A.N.Onym]

I am guessing it is the consequence of easy entry, where the large number of participants are of low quality. It is not just a problem of SEO, but other web related products and services as well.

It is weird that only SEO has picked up this kind of image, though, but not web designers, developers or copywriters (I think people are more tolerable to those, than to SEOs).

[Karl Ribas]

I wrote an article about this exact sort of thing some time back… it maybe helpful in your search for a good SEO Company: http://www.karlribas.com/choosing-an-seo.htm

Here are some of the highlights from the article (further description enclosed in the article):

- Request and Review References
- “Google” (Search) the SEO Company
- Request and Search Their Keywords
- Talk With More Than One Representative
- Request and Review Affiliates

Hope this helps, and best of luck to you!