Inktomi Paid Inclusion Options

Hi,

Say i list myself in Inktomi using the paid inclusion, will some spider follow the sitemap link i have and list all my other site pages or will i have to pay another inclusion fee for listing all my other pages?

Also, i need to pass through an Inktomi partner for submitting my pages but does that mean that a human will scan and list my page or does it just let the Inktomi spider scan it just like if i would submit through the regular "Add Url" form?

Thanks,


Rick

No.

Pages included as a result of PFI (pay-for-inclusion) never have links followed. In fact, all the reports from everyone who ever told me they'd gone the PFI route say the same thing - the moment you pay for a single page to be in inktomi, any existing free listings for your site will be dropped. This is apparently due to the filtering process to prevent PFI pages being crawled for link-following, but it just happens to mean you have to pay more too. A coincidence? hmmm...

PFI is great for smaller sites that can afford to have all of their pages included via PFI.

For anyone who can't afford (or justify in terms of ROI) submitting all important pages, then PFI is a fast way of excluding your site from ever being spidered or indexed as non-paid pages are.

No.

Pages included as a result of PFI (pay-for-inclusion) never have links followed.  In fact, all the reports from everyone who ever told me they'd gone the PFI route say the same thing - the moment you pay for a single page to be in inktomi, any existing free listings for your site will be dropped.  This is apparently due to the filtering process to prevent PFI pages being crawled for link-following, but it just happens to mean you have to pay more too.  A coincidence?  hmmm...

PFI is great for smaller sites that can afford to have all of their pages included via PFI.

For anyone who can't afford (or justify in terms of ROI) submitting all important pages, then PFI is a fast way of excluding your site from ever being spidered or indexed as non-paid pages are.

Hmmm interesting,

In other words you kinda advise me to frop the PFI way and go with the free Add Url where my links could be followed but do you know the refresh rate of Inktomi crawls and database refresh rate?

Rick

Rick, I'm not offering you any advice at all, only the information to make your own decision.

If you have a site that you can afford and justify paying for each and every page that matters to be PFI included, then PFI will get you spidered regularly and smoothly, meaning that your every update will be in the index within 48 hours.

If you have a large site with lots of pages that you want indexed, then you have to consider whether the investment of paying hundreds of dollars upfront, with no boost to your rankings included, is going to be justified by the returns on that investment.

Once you go PFI, I'm unsure whether you'll ever be freely spidered again afterwards. Therefore, unless you are sure of the ROI, be careful, just in case you can't ever stop paying after for fear of being completely excluded.

Rick, I'm not offering you any advice at all, only the information to make your own decision.

If you have a site that you can afford and justify paying for each and every page that matters to be PFI included, then PFI will get you spidered regularly and smoothly, meaning that your every update will be in the index within 48 hours.

If you have a large site with lots of pages that you want indexed, then you have to consider whether the investment of paying hundreds of dollars upfront, with no boost to your rankings included, is going to be justified by the returns on that investment.

Once you go PFI, I'm unsure whether you'll ever be freely spidered again afterwards.  Therefore, unless you are sure of the ROI, be careful, just in case you can't ever stop paying after for fear of being completely excluded.

Thanks BK,

Yes i understand that you don't give me advices but strong words like "i don't know if you'll ever be freely spidered again" well, is good enough to make me think.

Btw, do you know where i can find the Free "Add URL" form for Inktomi and info on the typical crawl and refresh rate?

Is it like Google, a crawl at the beginning of the month and a refresh at the end of it or is it faster than that?


Rick

http://submitit.bcentral.com/msnsubmit.htm is I believe now the best of the few remaining places to free-submit to inktomi.

Indexing times are pretty variable, and although it used to be one of the faster crawlers back in '99, it has suffered somewhat because most resources seem to be given to PFI. Now I'd say that anywhere from 2-6 weeks is what you are expecting.

Some report that inktomi have made their spider a little more voracious in crawling recently (perhaps realizing that they are consistently losing partnerships to engines with far larger databases).

There's a very similar discussion from a couple of months back that may provide a few further details.
PFI vs Free submit for FAST and Inktomi
< http://www.cre8asiteforums.com/forums/inde...p?showtopic=209 >

Ammon, what you're saying can't be entirely true. My main page at highrankings.com is in PFI with Ink, and they also have many of the other pages of my site included. (I haven't quite figured out how to see them all, but I can find many doing various searches at search.positiontech.com such as high rankings advisor seo and things like that.

So, I don't think it's fair to say that if you only pay for one page all your other pages will be deleted. It's definitely not the case for my site.

Jill

Jill, I'm glad that PFI has worked for you and still allowed pages to be picked up free. I have heard of maybe a dozen others with the same experience as yourself. I have heard of well over 100 SEOs who had all the rest of their content (already indexed) disappear without a trace immediately afterwards and never be crawled again.

The odds are poor for people. Even if the figures were reversed the odds of freely indexed pages being dropped due to PFI seem far higher than the odds of someone being banned for massively aggressive cloaked doorways.

Sure you can go PFI and test your luck, just as you can use mirror sites, doorways, redirects and cloaking and try your luck. I've tried to give information that doesn't promote gambling with your domain.

Hi Ammon,

I'm sure your experiences are real and true, and in fact, I pretty much expected I was going to check for my URLs and not find them. To my surprise Ink had a lot a lot of them, as I said.

One thing though, it's really hard to figure out with Ink how to show all the URLs they actually have listed for you. Do you know of the command to use to see this? I'm wondering if perhaps some people might be mistakingly thinking their URLs are gone (because it's hard to find them with INK), but maybe they're not? Probably not, but just a thought.

<added>Just checked another site of mine that has 3 pages in PFI. I was able to find many of the other pages that are not in PFI.

Checked a couple of newer sites, and only the main page that I submitted via PFI are in.

I'm thinking perhaps you can get additional pages when you use PFI for just one or two, but that it might take them a LOT longer to get around to them. Not exactly sure. And I have no idea about them deleting your other pages when you do one with PFI. </added>

Jill

Interesting comments Ammon and Jill.

I've had sites that we've PFI'd some pages then have additional pages listed for free. I've also a site I didn't renew a few months ago that still has quite a lot of pages included.

I do agree though that if you start paying for inclusion it can be a gamble. Lately I've noticed they're adding and updating (free) content more frequently.

I've noticed they're adding and updating (free) content more frequently.

Can you define that please? The fastest i heard was 2 weeks.

Another question i migh have here for all of you is when your page is submitted and crawled freely by Inktomi spider, do you know if the spider crawls the links on that page and index them all on the "same day" or does it take a few more weeks or month before the follow is complete and see all your other pages indexed?

Thanks,


Rick

I've noticed they're adding and updating (free) content more frequently.

Can you define that please? The fastest i heard was 2 weeks.

I don't have a specific time frame I've just noticed (and heard others comment) that pages are being added faster and refreshed more often.

They're working hard to remain a viable player, especially after loosing the AOL contract, so it's in their interestes to be keeping their database up-to-date and relevant. Since the loss of AOL I'd say they also lost a lot of PFI customers so if it means they need to add pages for free they will.

Remember this is only my opinion. :wink:

Can you define that please? The fastest i heard was 2 weeks.

For what it's worth, Peter's blog interview with me was already indexed in Ink when I was looking around for stuff there last night.

Jill

That's fast. :crazyeyes:
That was what, 2 weeks ago Jill?

I think he released it the end of Thanksgiving week, so not quite 2 weeks yet...right? Or are my days/weeks/nights/years messed up again? (Sometimes I still write 1995 on checks... :? )

Oh wait, he released it the week before Thanksgiving...but it was after my newsletter went out, so I didn't get to mention it until last week. So yes, it's been over 2 weeks. Peter may (or may not) know when it was indexed by them.

Gonna check Google....Yep, they've got it too.

Don't see it in AV, or at least it's not easily findable through a keyword search!

Apparently not in AllTheWeb either. So Ink is doing pretty well!

Jill

Yes I've been impressed with Ink lately. I've always had a soft spot for them and hope they rise from the ashes!

(Sometimes I still write 1995 on checks...  )

LOL. Same. <Soph rushes off to find a calendar>

I think he released it the end of Thanksgiving week, so not quite 2 weeks yet...right? Or are my days/weeks/nights/years messed up again?  (Sometimes I still write 1995 on checks...  :? )

Oh wait, he released it the week before Thanksgiving...but it was after my newsletter went out, so I didn't get to mention it until last week.  So yes, it's been over 2 weeks.  Peter may (or may not) know when it was indexed by them.  

Gonna check Google....Yep, they've got it too.

Don't see it in AV, or at least it's not easily findable through a keyword search!  

Apparently not in AllTheWeb either.  So Ink is doing pretty well!

Jill

Hi Jill,

How about pages linked on that page (if he has any) do they also appear on Ink too?

Rick

Ink launches "Web Search 9". Source: Danny Sullivan "In Search Of The Relevancy Figure"

"With the release of Web Search 9, Inktomi meets or exceeds all other search engines in the key metrics of search performance: relevance, freshness and index size," says Inktomi, on a summary page about the changes at the company's web site."


http://www.searchenginewatch.com/sereport/...-relevancy.html

To back up its claims, Inktomi cited figures for two of the key metrics. For freshness, Inktomi claims to revisit all documents in its index at least once every two weeks. For index size, it claims to index 3 billion web documents, a new record (and one that Google also began claiming last month). But what about relevance? Inktomi had no figures to offer, here.

Kim

Inktomi Web Search technology is designed to discover and analyze over three billion Web pages.

Searchenginewatch got the index size a bit wrong. Inky says that Web Search 9 is designed to discover and analyse over 3 billion pages. Inky doesn't claim that they've actually done that.

Phil.

Ammon, what you're saying can't be entirely true.  My main page at highrankings.com is in PFI with Ink, and they also have many of the other pages of my site included

I remember having some banter with you about your SEO approach a while ago. Did you not mention that you had lots of domains all pointing to the same IP? (which you said you weren't promoting but I still found a couple of your domains in DMOZ as listings!)

It could be an exception or it could be because of those other domains.

Who knows?

Anyway....I'll stop here.