Need Help Seo-ing And Indexing A Site Options

[oricemures]

Before i get to the actual question, let my introduce my self.

My name is Mircea, joined the forum after hearing about how open minded and helpful people are here.

As far as SEO Knowledge and Site building, i can program to xhtml standard and i have no done any actual seo work although I've read a lot of books.

Now the question. The first "real" site I've created is http://www.orice-mures.ro/ , Orice Mures, a local business directory for the county Mures in Romania. The main idea is to include all the businesses and their offers from that area.

The main problem I am facing now is slow indexing. I've already submitted a sitemap to google and have a few links, 1 from off topic PR 3 website and 2 from PR 1 sites.

How can i get all my pages indexed quickly?

The reason I am asking that is because I saw that the pages that are indexed are already ranking good (page 1 or 2 in google)for the choosen keywords and the site is only a week old. (I guess on page seo is ok and competition has none) and because nobody wants a listing in the catalog unless i rank first for "_field_of_business_ mures".

Secondly, how can i get some good back links. the competition is so tough that no one is showing a little link love.

One idea i got was to release a free template under Creative Commons that had a link to my site in the footer the user of the template must keep.

Can that be of some use? If yes, give me some suggestions to take the idea to the next level and some sites where i can submit it to!

[SEOigloo]

Greetings, Oricemures!

Welcome to Cre8asite. This is a very neat site you've created.

Let me try to tackle some of your questions.

1) Getting indexed quickly.
As you likely know, there's really no way to control how quickly your pages get indexed. Quickest indexing seems to happen when links point to a page. First, the internal links need to point to that page, obviously, and then, you need to get external links pointing to the pages you are hoping to have indexed and ranking well.

2) Getting Links.
Does your town have something like a Chamber of Commerce, Chamber of Business or something along those lines where the best local businesses list their companies? If so, can you join this and potentially get a high quality link this way? What about local government? Any way to get a link from them by offering them something of value on your site? How about local charities and organizations? Could you possibly donate to them, get involved in an activity that would lead to press and links for your business? And then, of course, there are all the local businesses. If you make their profiles appealing enough on your site, might some of them be willing to link proudly to their page on your website?

What about starting a blog on your website featuring local events. This would give people a natural reason to link to you if what you were covering was of sufficient local interest.

I noticed you had a number of Pagina in curs de finalizare pages. You need to get your site fully populated and finished up to increase you chances of people find it worth linking to, so looks like you've got lots of work still to do! Good luck.

These are just a few suggestion to begin with. I'm sure others will come along with more.
It's nice to have you here.
Miriam

This post has been edited by SEOigloo: Mar 19 2008, 04:51 PM

[oricemures]

SEOigloo, thank you for the quick response and detailed review.
I really still come around from the shock - you really looked at my site and gave a ample review.
You don't see this on many forums.
Will definitly try to get links from local sites, but they are bad seo'ed and have few backlinks so they don't help much. You shoul see thi sites, it's like the early 90's all over again ).

[saschaeh]

here is some suggestions, but dont hold me to it!

On the directory result pages. http://www.orice-mures.ro/catalog/24-resta...aurante001.html

1: Perhaps add more text. At the moment text is scares and SE's needs that content. Its good if the keywords in the title, Headers and the copy relate to each other. But maybe you need to add more substance to the page becasue SE's, i believe, want you to have a good keyword to word ratio. At the moment your keyword to content ratio is way to high. 80% of the words on those pages are a keyword.

So on the example page:

Restaurant is in the page <title>. Then you have it in the Header and you've used <H1> which is good. Perhaps here you can add some more copy just to reinforce the keyword you've used in the title and header and better the keyword/word ration. In this copy you can also accommodate for any variation there may be with the keyword, if possible include some of these variations in Title and Header.

You could also link to the other pages that are related to Restaurante (Baruri si Cluburi, Pizzerii si, Fast Food, Restaurante, Casino, Ruleta si Jocuri Noroc). Im not sure if this will help google but it might be useful to users. (whats good for users is often is good for Google)

URL: 24-restaurante/restaurante001.html i would make the URL more friendly. Take out the numbers if you can and you got space to add more keywords. If you cant take out the number i would defiantly change this 'restaurante001.html' to 'restaurante-001.html'.

if you dont have XML site map get one.


The next suggestion means a lot of work for you - what bout having a 'profile' page for each listing like 'RESTAURANTUL LEO'. This will allow you to place the restaurant name in the title, header and build a little bit of content. This in turn could potentially get some traffic from people who search directly for those restaurants. All listings can add a little more information which will only benefit you. You could, even, create a Keyword field where they can fill out keywords that they think describes their restaurant. (Keyword research and implementation for nothing!) If you allow them to have 'profile page' you can add a "see more restaurant" link so if people who found your site through search for RESTAURANTUL LEO can look at the other option you have. If they use the word restaurant in their copy you can link it back to the primary restaurant page - working on the internal linking. (I believe there is code that can automatically do that kind of linking for you.) [Side Note: If you worried about people data mining these details then life is made double hard if they have to click through to get to one set of details!]


Welcome to cre8a!
Sascha

This post has been edited by saschaeh: Mar 19 2008, 07:23 PM

[Autocrat]

An idea you could try is bot controlling.
(NOTE: This is not verified, and has only been bandied around a bit at the google groups. I suggest researching it to see if it is worthwhile.)
By using either a robots.txt file, or the robots meta tag, you could "close off" parts of the site. The idea here being that you can attempt to focus the area's of interest that the bots can look at.

As suggested by ...saschaeh..., if you can provide a page per entry, this means that you can start incorporating additional information per business (good for the business, good for the user, and probably of interest to the bots!).
This means you can use the business name, service/industry type and possible a location in the Title, Description, Keywords and probably in more than a few Header tags on that page.
It also means you can have links with such details in pointing to those pages.

Cross linking, either within a section/category, or across the entire site, may help the users locate and view related/topical items. How far you want to go with this approach is down to you (just within the category, or link categories as well? An additional though is whether the businesses will object to Restraunts A and B being linked to from C's page?).
It may also help the spiders start to associate tight/broad groups of pages.


As far as I can see, the more activity on the site (frequent updates/additions), the more chance of the bots paying attention.

(NOTE: This is not verified, and has only been bandied about/mentioned)
I'm going to step out onto a limb and also suggest that click through to your site may also be a contributing factor (so not only do you need links to your site... but maybe having those links clicked helps a little more?).


Getting listed in prominent places is not an easy task... but you can take some small steps to get attention.
dmoz is a good place to start, as are some of hte other direcotiry sites (be patient, don't pay unless it's worth it, contact them and ask if they know their PR, whether they nofollow links, if they can tell you their monthly page impressions, uniquie visitors and click throughs etc.).


...SEOigloo... made mention of local trade associations, businesses and goverment etc.
Do contact them... all of them! If your directory can be construed/thought off as an enterprise/business, then you may be entitled to a mention. It also opens up the option of submitting a few articles about beign a new start up vventure, working in the business community, business regeneration schemes, associative liasons etc.


I think the hardest part of it all... is being patient. Jsut remember to make notes on what you have done so
you can go back and check those directories/sites/links.

[bragadocchio]

Hi Mircea,

Welcome to the forums. A couple of ideas for you...

One issue that I see is that the home page could be seen as four different pages by the search engines:

http://www.example.com
http://www.example.com/index.html
http://example.com
http://www.example.com/index.html

This should be avoided since it has the potential to split link popularity (PageRank) between the different versions of pages.

Choose either a version of the URL with "www" or without the "www". Take the other, and use a permanent (301) redirect to point to the other. For instance, if you decide to include the "www," use a permanent redirect to point non-www versions of the URLs to the www versions.

Instead of linking to the home page with the "index.html," link to those pages without the name of the file:

http://www.example.com/

The logo links use the version of the home page URL without the "index.html", and the top navigation link points to the home page with the "index.html". Consider changing the text link, and any other links to not include "index.html" in the URL.

In the use of heading elements, the headings in the navigation on the right link to pages about the topics covered in that navigation. By using <h1> elements in that section, the words within those headings are emphasized as much as the text in your <h1> element in the main content section for the page on the left. Styled text could be used for the navigation to emphasize that text less than the headings on the left.

[oricemures]

bragadocchio, about the ways to acces the homepage.

I signed up to google webmaster tools and specified to appear in Google listings as http://www.orice-mures.ro.

I've been meaning to do a 301 redirect but don't know how. Could you tell me? My host uses Cpanel version 11 i think. Ho to 301 using it?

Also, I will definitly change the top logo link.
-------------------
Autocrat, I will add a page for every listing but the problem is that they have to pay to have their own page for a listing.

I only have free inclusions so far. . Now, I am thinking to build seo'ed listings for all businesses and then, later, go show them traffic stats and convince them to join premium.

any further opinion/suggestion on that?
------------------
saschaeh, I think I an going to add a seo'ed text at the bottom of every page and a short description under the pages <h1>, remove some keywords and use sinonimes to reduce keyword density, because, it seem at the moment, a bit spammy.
what do you think?

Great responses guys, really am impressed?

Does anyone see something that I can fix with my site? [ http://www.orice-mures.ro ]
I am starting optimizing pages friday and it would be good to be able to do all the changes at once

[saschaeh]

Well dont add the text at the bottom of page as it is not as wighted as heavily as it would at the top of the page. in fact the further down the page the content is the less relevancy it has for bots. Dont remove keywords simply add more content.

In terms of making people pay for the extra pages... its a chicken and egg scenario. you need to traffic to get them paying and to get the traffic you need to get them listed and perhaps individually. It will also be easier to sell the space when the traffic is coming to them. Perhaps have limited time free full profile inclusions or something.

[Ron Carnell]

Well dont add the text at the bottom of page as it is not as wighted as heavily as it would at the top of the page. in fact the further down the page the content is the less relevancy it has for bots.

Says who?

[saschaeh]

I had read it somewhere along the line. The idea came from the fact that google stopped crawling a page if it was to long..? Well it used to. I think read that on a blog or perhaps another forum but i cant find it now. Something like you should always populated the first paragraph with keywords, if possible and through out the text. Must admit this is something i picked up a while a ago.

So the structure would be:

Title.
Header.
First paragraph with keywords.
And then it tapper off.
(this is also good for users as the first paragraph should be an intro to what is to follow.)

Anyway i think i shall put theory to the test. Ill create loooooong page with Lots of copy an place different nonsense keywords amongst the copy first paragraph and all the way down to the end. This will indicate if it gets cut off at some point. I can also place specialized keyword strings which have very little results from Google (say 10 - 30). Get 5 or 6 different keyword strings make sure they are about equal number of results. Then place those keyword strings in my loooooong content starting top to bottom. It will be fun. Any suggestions for my little test?

Sascha

This post has been edited by saschaeh: Mar 20 2008, 12:23 PM

[Ron Carnell]

There was, indeed, a time when Google only indexed the first 101K of a document (that's HTML and text, generally, and does NOT included images and such). Maybe something like three years ago?

Even then, how many web pages do you see larger than 101K? Size limitations, and all search engines presumably have some, are the exceptions not the rule, I should think?

Still, that's not quite what you said earlier. You said text at the bottom was weighted less heavily than text at the top, which is very different from text at the bottom not being indexed at all. Personally, I think that's the kind of claim we need to back up as fact, not spread as potential rumor. I've never seen any indication it's true, but would certainly welcome evidence otherwise?

[saschaeh]

Too true - we should be very careful. Theres a lot of 'rumors' and i picked that one up... need to be more vigilant - make sure that information is triple confirmed.

Ill do that test i mentioned and see what comes of it. Ill post the result here on cre8asite!

Thanks Ron

[Autocrat]

Just goes to highlight to one of the biggest dangers of SEO... you need big wellies to wade through an awful lot of the SEO/M stuff!

Asking for facts is also fdifficult, as even the big boys (and girls) will simply state its a "case by case process" and "what works for one site may not work as well for another".
Whether this is completely true or not (I kind of doubt that many of techniques are that vague they only work "sometimes" on "Some sites" ????), it's worth keeping in mind that there does seem to be a very large industry fileld with "could" and "maybe"... so take your time, do your research and make notes on everything.


I (personally) recommend searching the web whilst keeping a large dose of salt and a small spade next to you. Every time you read someting, take a pinch of salt with it.
Then apply logic and common sense... try to think of how the bots/engines/algo's would use it, if they would at all. If you cannot think of a suitable, relevant reason, then grab that little spade and start shovelling


There are plenty of good threads on here for SEO... and plenty of links.
Look for BlackKnight... look for stuff at seomoz... and seobook too.

[saschaeh]

Well put Autocrat.

[A.N.Onym]

Sascha, though the order of text for bots shouldn't be of huge importance to us, if the piece of content or a link (carefully worded) put at the bottom of the page isn't valuable for bots, but will help you convert more visitors, will you put it there, or not?

Then again, as you say, if the bot values top text more, it doesn't mean it doesn't value bottom text at all. It still should help.

But practically speaking, I say you should put whatever text you want to provide adequate information to your visitors and convert them to your customers. Forget about the search engines at least at this instance.

[oricemures]

Ok. a little update on the advices I implemented.

#1.
I modified the title/ description/keywords using the advice in a seo thread started by saschaeh. Keywords choosen after viewing what the competition is ranking to and thinking what Keywords people are likely to choose when searching.

#2.
Added more text to reduce keyword density. because it is a list of businesses from mures, the word mures repeated a little too much in the page copy - to a bot it could have seemed spammy.

The text i added contains variations, synonyms and lexicographically related terms to the keywords + some specific things in that field in hopes of catching long tail searches.

I added the text in the sidebar, because it's more for google the for vizitors as they for exemple know what to expect to find in the automobile section.

The text is at the bottom of the source code. do i need to worry about it having lower weight in google?
Any way , I think that sites should be made for people first , so i think I am ready to sacrifice a little seo to make it more user friendly.

Also added some links to the other pages in each category.
If you want, take a look here: http://www.orice-mures.ro/catalog/06-const...ale/cst001.html , give me more feedback.

#3.
I think i resolved the page rank splitting problem bragadocchio was talking about.
I sign with webmaster tools and selected to only display www. results in google, changes link in main navigation (on some pages) from ../index.html to www.orice-mures.ro.

#4. [to do] acquiring links
I am thinking about submitting articles to article websites on the web. the would be each on a topic and contain a link to my home page and a deeper inner page related topically. what do you think? can you tell me some good article sites with out limitations to maximum number of articles and who pass link juice.

Also if a submit articles with the same content on the site will it help me? will the absolute links back define my site as the original and link the link count?

also has any one worked with Scribd.com? do the links embedded in the Ipapper viwer get indexed?

[oricemures]

I also have been thinking to fill an empty side column with keywords usually searched for for every category. what is your opinion about that. how much does it help or hurt seo?

[saschaeh]

I also have been thinking to fill an empty side column with keywords usually searched for for every category. what is your opinion about that. how much does it help or hurt seo?

Keyword stuffing is not good. Rather have focused pages that are naturally filled with keywords.

[oricemures]

Ok boys and girls, just wanted to update you on how things are going.

Now that Google started to index my deeper pages I am starting to rank pretty high for my chosen keywords - either on first or second page.

Also I have a questions. I have a few pages that have the same title description and keywords because only the content is different - this happens on pages that display business listing from the same category.

Does this hurt rankings and how can I fix it if it does??

[dazzlindonna]

I'd dump the keywords tag completely, as that would be the easiest thing to do in this situation, and it won't harm you any. The same for the description if necessary, although unique descriptions for every page can be beneficial for CTR. But definitely, definitely, definitely, have a unique title for every page, and never have duplicate descriptions (unique or none). This can make a world of difference.