Google's Street View, Privacy Infringement? Options

[swainzy]

Google's new street view on maps was brought to my attention of late from our local newspaper - "Smile, You're on Google . Seems Google is driving around rural Sonoma County, sometimes trespassing on private property to get photos of homes and such.

Google spokeswoman Elaine Filadelfo says,

"As for photographing on private property, she said the company tries to avoid it. It is our policy to only gather photos on public roads, she said. We'll certainly take down images taken on private property".

My concern with that statement? How easy is it to reach Google with your request for removal? It's known how unresponsive Google has been to work with on local search map bugs or erroneous listing info.

I metioned the newspaper article to Miriam as I knew she was into local search and that we both live in the same county this article is talking about. She had been aware of this too and was in the process of blogging about it.

Some questionable street views.

Thoughts?

[SEOigloo]

Hi Donna
I'm really happy that you've started a discussion about this here. I value the opinions of Cre8 members' above all others.

In talking with several of the people who commented on the post I wrote, it became clear to me that I think we may need to redefine what trespass is. Is it trespass if your foot doesn't come down on private land? Trespass to use tools (cameras) to cross property lines?

I'm looking forward to hearing any and all thoughts on this subject. I think it's an important one and really enjoyed you bringing it up, first in discussion with me, and now, here
Miriam

[lee.n3o]

I actually don't have a problem with it to be honest ...

Maybe because they aren't doing round my area, but I love the ability to be able to look around somewhere I might not ever get a chance to go.

[A.N.Onym]

In any case, you should feel comfortable enough as the faces of the innocent will be blurred.

Considering they are using cars and drivers, why do drivers drive up to the privacy property anyway? Shouldn't they
- consult drivers
- fix camera software to keep their lens on the road

This post has been edited by A.N.Onym: Jul 29 2008, 02:47 AM

[eKstreme]

A few weeks ago, I had a chat with a Google Streetview driver. Yes, he stopped the car and we had a chat and I took some photos. The post is going up on my blog today or tomorrow.

Lee: they must have done Bedford by now because their centre is in Milton Keynes.

[A.N.Onym]

Technically, though, it should be almost normal to take a couple of images of the buildings, because that's how people find stuff and what they look for. In moderation, of course. Though I suspect even this approach will rub most people against their fur.

This post has been edited by A.N.Onym: Jul 29 2008, 03:31 AM

[JohnMu]

I have to admit that I find Street View along with Panoramio two of the neatest features on Google Maps. When I'm planning on visiting some place, I love to take both of them to help me get oriented before I get there. When I'm considering where to go, I love to use Panoramio to get an idea of what I could find there. Anyway, enough of me

That said, I don't think trespassing is ok (especially when it's clearly not desired), but I have seen many places where it's not really clear that you're no longer on public ground. I don't know the specifics, so I can't really comment on that..

At any rate, when you see something inappropriate, please take the time to report it to Google. It's easy to do, just click the "Street View Help" link on top of the image, then click on "Report inappropriate image" (try it ). It'll bring up a form where you can specify exactly what the problem is and submit it (don't try that unless it's really a problem ). I just noticed that the help center article on that even has a video explaining how to do it.

Looking forward to your blog post, Pierre! I had dinner with one of the people organizing Street View in Europe here, it's fascinating to hear about everything involved.

John

[lee.n3o]

Lee: they must have done Bedford by now because their centre is in Milton Keynes

COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!

I didn't know Google were in Milton Keynes? Thats only up the road!... Hmmm now if only I knew someone at Google

[rustybrick]

Timely topic, it is funny because Greg Sterling (well-known in our industry) found his own cars in Street View. He blogged it at http://gesterling.wordpress.com/2008/07/28...ws-my-driveway/

[Ron Carnell]

In talking with several of the people who commented on the post I wrote, it became clear to me that I think we may need to redefine what trespass is. Is it trespass if your foot doesn't come down on private land? Trespass to use tools (cameras) to cross property lines?

Depends on the camera, I think, Miriam. If the camera sees nothing more than the human eye would see, then no, in my opinion it wouldn't constitute trespassing, nor would I consider it an invasion of privacy. If there's something I don't want people to see on my property I'd either move it or get a big fence.

The very last thing I want is for drivers to have to cover their eyes as they pass my house.

[SEOigloo]

The very last thing I want is for drivers to have to cover their eyes as they pass my house

That made me laugh, Ron.

John - Thanks for the advice on requesting removal of images. That's good to have instructions for.


I know, guys...it's cool. I think I said so in the article. Google's ideas are almost always just stunningly cool.

Perhaps, being American, some of us are getting more and more sensitive to invasions of our privacy. Maybe Europe still feels more free and friendly?

Just a thought.
Miriam

[JohnMu]

Hi Miriam

Absolutely just speaking for myself...

I would go out on a limb and say that I think that Europe's generally a little further and has somewhat stricter privacy laws. This may not be true in all situations, but that's how I perceive it (at least from this little, technically non-European, island of Switzerland). Perhaps through our work on privacy here we feel more relaxed in this regard because we feel that the laws are "within reason"? [putting on my helmet]

For instance, we've had laws (or similar) for a while now defining exactly what public webcams are allowed to record and relay online. In a sense, I find public, live webcams much more complicated than a car taking static shots on the street, so if I feel comfortable with those webcams, I should feel more at ease with something taking static images.

Since my old company made medical software, I've always been really interested in the data protection laws, especially over here (you can only do so much). The things I've seen here have been extremely reasonable and quite protective, so I feel pretty comfortable. We've also had some really good people work on those laws here.

Again, this is all just my own opinion and Switzerland is certainly different than the rest of Europe (not to mention the US).

John

[joedolson]

Pierre's article is up now: Chatting with a Google Streetview Driver.

Very interesting stuff - nice work, Pierre!

[swainzy]

Interesting Pierre. Glad you wrote that up. The driver didn't want to be photographed! Very ironic.

[eKstreme]

Thanks Joe and Donna.

The irony of the driver not wanting to be photographed is a bit misleading. The guy was genuinely scared because the BBC article was published only recently and still in memory (it was published early July and people still mention it to this day when Streetview comes up). I just wanted to be a bit of a jerk but it got him to stop and gave me the chance to chat.

Given how scared the guy is, I went through a lot of trouble to assure him his anonymity. I didn't ask for his name. I promised to not give out info about where the incident happened (hence some hiding the details in the photos using tight cropping and colouring over), and I waited a long time to make sure many more cities are covered.

Sitting on a story like this for so long was very hard. I wanted to hit publish too many times but I waited. Then this thread came up and I took it as a sign It's your fault, you made me do it

P

[swainzy]

It's your fault, you made me do it

Yes, it is more about him being afraid than G being hypocritical, at least in this situation. Interviewing the guy really brings home how much pressure the guy felt from the unhappy public.

Is this the newspaper article you reference Pierre?

Found more info on how Paris views street views:

Yet in France, citizens have a "droit à l'image," the right to their own image: pictures identifying them as they go about their private business may not be published without their permission.

This post has been edited by swainzy: Jul 30 2008, 11:07 AM

[eKstreme]

Donna,

The article I was referring to is linked to from the post, and it's this BBC article. That caused a bit of a stir and the driver knew about it because he mentioned it.

P

[SEOigloo]

My article has drawn some pretty strong comments on my blog. One reader used as an example that if people don't want to be photographed in their homes, they should shut their curtains.

Have we really come to this? I guess we have.

I was talking to my lovely mother last night about this subject and she offered what I thought was a very noteworthy comment on it.

She says even if it's not illegal, what it is is 'antisocial'. She says that in her lifetime, she's watched basic rudeness and a lack of good social behavior increase noticeably. Social behavior is in place to make people comfortable. This means not swearing in public, spitting on public sidewalks or accosting strangers in the street to convert them to your religion. Though none of these things is illegal, they cause great discomfort for others and are, thus, antisocial.

I like this definition. Whether it's illegal or not, Google's Street View is making members of society very uncomfortable. It's just not good manners, not good social behavior, to photograph people or their property without their consent.

John -
I really appreciated your take on this. I want to reiterate...I'm wowed by Google's brilliant inventions. You guys are simply wizards and I stand in awe of the technology. Maybe you're right in that Europeans feel safer, better protected, more respected. Americans (and I am making a generalization) are feeling very shaky right now about 200 year old laws being disregarded in the matters of privacy and citizen rights. With all of the troubles we're having, I think a lot of people are not going to be happy about neighbor Google peering in their windows right now.

Thanks for your response!
Miriam

[DrPete]

I used to live out in what is often called "farm country" and, while I don't want to stereotype people from the country, there are still places where you could be shot for trespassing, especially if you're a 20-something Valley type with a camera. I have nothing against the Street View concept in general, but Google needs to develop some very clear guidelines, communicate them to employees, and be transparent about this.

[iamlost]

I see the Street View future: urban housing will revert to high blank exterior walls with solid gates opening on interior courtyards like something from old Tangier...

Thanks, Google.