Optimized pages and PPC Options

[Caissa]

Happy Holidays,

At what point would you consider it redundant to have a PPC ad on Google and Overture when your optimized page has hit the first SERP? Is it time to pull the ad when your page is at, say, #10 spot when your ad is in #4 place in Google adwords? Does it pay to have both?

I can see the point in keeping the Overture (Yahoo) because it is so intergrated into the listings... but maybe not. I sure would like some advise because I could use to put the ad money in many other places!

[Web Diversity]

Hi Caissa,

Merry Christmas.

You've asked an interesting question and I am sure there will be plenty of others with their opinions in due course.

There will be no right or wrong tactic regarding SERP's and PPC. We have plenty of scenarios where we have a top 10 keyword and also a paid ad on Google. We find that there is no real difference in either CTR when we switch an ad on and off.

Based on the amount of time it takes to put an ad up there is no harm in taking it down, but if you think about it, if you get say 10 clicks on a paid ad, where you have a page in the top 10 on say Google, then that is 10 extra visitors that you wouldn't get if you hadn't had the ad, if you turn a profit on those 10 clicks then it's worth having them there always.

So I guess that if you can use the money for the ads better elsewhere, then maybe your not extracting as much from the ads as you could be, regardless of a SERP's listing or not.

Even SERP's listings cost your time in carrying out the work needed to get to where you got.

[Phil CK]

I'm really going to just re-enforce whats Jim said as he makes a couple of great points...

that is 10 extra visitors that you wouldn't get if you hadn't had the ad

To me its all about whether you think (or know :wink: ) that you won't loose those extra 10 visitors by dropping the ad ? And whats the PPC cost of gaining those extra visitors vs the return you gain from them ?



As a general comment, I believe people look at Google ads in 1 of 3 ways :

1. Ignore then totally, and therefore your true placement in the results is vital.

2. Treat them as 'trusted' results from 'Professional' companies as clearly they must be serious if they're willing to pay for their ads (and therefore visitors). Ads gain clicks from people who wouldn't necessarily click your standard result.

3. Treat Ads and results as one and therefore click the most appealing result.

Clearly one of the big benefits of Adwords (and other campaigns) is that you can exactly choose the text to be displayed and therefore well written, and carefully targeted ads can add additional visitors to your site

[Caissa]

Thanks!

That makes a lot of sense. At the rate of .05 a click it is well worth staying there even at #1 in SERP.

I had a tremendous increase in traffic this quarter with sales increasing proportionally. I wish I knew whether it was holiday shopping (of course a lot), better serp positions, better copywriting (many thanks BK), ads, new products etc.

Being a one-woman show there is no time to analyze the logs as throughly as I wish. I do use a unique landing page for the ads and they do get MANY clicks. I am not sure whether this landing page is converting to sales. I could use a tracking device and see. That probably would be the best way to know what's what...

Thinking out loud ..

Wishing you all have a properous and joyous new year.

[Black_Knight]

At what point would you consider it redundant to have a PPC ad on Google and Overture when your optimized page has hit the first SERP?

At the point where your PPC listing is the only real competitor for your free SERPs listing. If other competitors are in the PPC results (or even ahead of you in the SERPs) and may well get the customer's business if found first, then keep the PPC listing.

Glad to hear that things have been looking up in the latter part of the year. Certainly the Christmas shoppers may account for a rise in business, and I would expect that the copywriting too made for a difference. Have you seen much change in rankings to match?

[Caissa]

Hi BK,

In September I redesigned my site. I received immediate gratification. I had 10 keyword phrases that I was hoping to get into the top 5 at Google. With exception of 1 phrase, I have made them all. This 1 phrase is one I have one of my adwords (and Overture listing) in and have finally moved to #10 in SERP.

That #1 place is held by a spammer (cloaking, hidden text, hidden links, etc.). So #1 I will never become. I am not sure why I am just #10. I do much better on all things related to this phrase (density, links, and of course content, etc.), and I don't want to make my site "tacky" by stuffing more of that phrase in.

The best SERP move I made (and tested it easily by unique visitors) was a keyword phrase that I was no where at and moved to #3. The difference was 5000 unique visitors a week! I do not have (nor ever have had) a PPC for that phrase since it is a phrase that brings in the "looking for free stuff" people.

That was another PPC quandry. What phrases should one pay for with an extremely limited budget? The highest I pay is at Overture for #3 at .15. But even that can break the bank if it doesn't convert. So I had to be selective and choose only the ones that buyers would use. This could open a whole new discussion which would be very useful.

Oh, I bet you didn't want to get all that!

Happy Holidays!

[Phil CK]

"With exception of 1 phrase, I have made them all" ... Caissa, Congrats on a job well done

With regard to that 1 missing phrase...

** What is the phrase ?

** "So #1 I will never become" - Who says ?? Your spammers time will come when they get caught and you can sit and smile happily as they get dropped and you rise up the ranks on well deserved merit.

** "The difference was 5000 unique visitors a week" - fantastic ! Yes they may come in on a free ticket, but I'm sure some of them will be impressed by your offerings and part with their hard earned cash... if not today, tomorrow maybe.

[Caissa]

Hi Phil,

Thanks so much! I am stunned, happy and tired from filling orders

The phrase is "chess software". I am sitting at 10 and have an ad in both Overture and Google. In my niche we all know each other. The 1-9 slots before me are for a single type of chess software where I carry the complete line (and most of their offerings too). I also have made it a point to give as much information about the products as possible as well as review sites. I am still working on my copywriting, but I have fixed many glaring errors. I have free chess software that people can try before they buy as well as a FAQ section for helpful hints.

I don't think Google will do anything about the spammer. He holds the #1 place for all the money making keyword phrases in chess, i.e. chess sets, chess pieces, chess boards, chess software. I didn't even try for those, though I made it in the top 10 on chess boards with out much effort.

It is a lot of work to get your keyword phrases in the top results at Google. Having the option of putting your money down instead of time is great. What would be better still is to hire someone who REALLY knows Internet marketing. But I have found that PPC are extremely useful in a marketing plan.

I would love to get into Google's new PPC seacrh engines for Finland etc. I even would pay for Japan, but the tranlation costs for a landing page are prohibitive and I don't think that English would work well. I may be wrong. Anyone have any experience at it?

[Phil CK]

Hi Caissa & Happy New Year !

I've just had a quick review of your site & http://www.icdchess.com/ and if I may, I'll make a few comments...


* I can't understand the spam style text at the bottom of ICD ?? Why have black text on a black background (clear signs of Spam), but then make a statement of

Your Move Chess and Games has been serving the chess community for nearly a quarter century and makes customer satisfation its number one priority. Be assured that your needs will be our primary concern.....blah blah

? Why put a customer service note in black ? If it was CHESS, CHESS, CHESS then I'd understand it !


* As you said, ICD uses some unusually META tags ... VW96.objecttype ? I like cars, but thats no Volkswagen I'm aware of :wink:

* Both of you have got high numbers of in-bound links (about 350 each), but.... and this is the only suggestion I can really make... ICD is listed in ODP (sort of twice, with ChessUSA.com as well) and you are not listed at all.

Therefore, I'd suggest trying to get into ODP (there's no reason why you shouldn't be added) as its sure to help rankings as it is the directory Google uses.... worth a try ???

Finally, I personally think some of your images are slightly over-optimised.

Eg.
which is a little bit "wobbly" around the text. I know its a balancing act between quality & download time, but I think a slightly longer wait would be worth it.

[Caissa]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for taking a look! I do have 2 listings in DMOZ under chess/shopping and chess/books and both are to Chess Central. Perhaps when Google updates its data from DMOZ it will be favorable to me.

Who knows.. the dance is in mid rumba (I have learned now not even to watch it for 5 days - don't need the ulcers) and I might make some gains. If not, I am lucky I get the fresh tag every 2 days which gives me the abbility to tinker. Maybe we can tinker together? 8)

Happy New Year!

[Phil CK]

Humm, hopefully you should have had an e-mail from me :?: :?: