So What Does SEMPO Mean To You? Options

[bwelford]

Those who don't visit other Forums may not be aware that there are some heated discussions going on elsewhere about a relatively new organization, SEMPO. This is the Search Engine Marketing Professional Organization.

One of the aims of this organization is to promote the subject of Search Engine Marketing. That sounds very laudable and an aim that I'm sure we would all support.

Where the debate comes up is on that word, Professional. This is normally used when an organization has a Code of Ethics, which all members must obey. SEMPO does not seem to have such a Code of Ethics that members must obey or be disbarred.

Another aspect is that the fees for SEMPO are fairly hefty for small organizations. There is a notion in strategic thinking of "barriers to entry". To be in a market place where such barriers exist is great for those suppliers who are "inside the barrier". The Internet is one of the most democratic "worlds" that could possibly exist. Everyone can make themselves heard. SEMPO could be seen to be creating such a barrier to entry for the small, start-up SEO's.

It would be interesting to hear folk's reactions to SEMPO. Is it good for you? :?

[Black_Knight]

I'll invite a few folks over to give us the inside view of SEMPO too.

[gravelsack]

Whilst wishing them well, I remain unconvinced.

Whichever way you look at it, Search Engines don't like SEOers, we mess with their algo. Unless SEMPO is totally free of SE funding, it will be just another talking shop (I have not kept upto date with this one - they were originally looking at SEs to partly fund the operation - has this changed?)

I will not be joining unless I see a positive value other than being 'part of the guild'.

I agree, a code of ethics is essential - which is where it will probably trip up - whose ethics?.

I would like to be convinced otherwise

[projectphp]

Whichever way you look at it, Search Engines don't like SEOers

But SE love third parties that encourage PPC spends , particularly if a company tries SEm, fails, and then you resurrect the deal.

SEMPO not SEOPO. Subtle difference, but the goal is to push search engines as a marketting tool, and get some of the ad spend reserved for Television, radio etc, not to push SEO ethics.

And yes, SE are members of SEMPO now. That's a good thing, as it is a start in amalgamating a diverse industry.

[gravelsack]

I am well aware of the difference. SEM includes SEO within it, so the problem remains.

as it is a start in amalgamating a diverse industry.

Its gonna be like trying to herd cats. Too many different views and the market changes too quickly.

So far I have seen a few laudable, if rather obvious, aims and a whole bunch of marketing speak that means nothing if you analyse it.

Unless I see some more interesting answers to 'Whats in it for me?', I can't help but see it as another restrictive medieval type guild.

[sanity]

Whichever way you look at it, Search Engines don't like SEOers, we mess with their algo.

Agreed.

Its gonna be like trying to herd cats. Too many different views and the market changes too quickly.

Agreed. Unless there is cohesiveness I see it struggling. Especially as it doesn't carry a code of conduct - not that I think creating one would be easy. There's a lot of diverse search marketing people out there.

[Black_Knight]

I've always believed that there is a lot of good that such an organization can do for us all, including (if not especially) the small companies and those just starting out.

Some years ago (1999) I was part of one of the previous attempts to spontaneously form such an organization, moved by a sudden upswell of support for the idea at one of the large forums of the time. We tried to make it completely non-profit. Trouble was that it was way too much work for anyone to do without expecting a good return. I learnt a lot from that experience though, and would never again try to build something that relied upon goodwill and kudos rather than more tangible rewards for the work that must go into such an organization.

The things that such an organization can do are very real and very valuable. We negotiated member discounts on all sorts of very desirable software and services for instance, which totalled an amount far in excess of the foreseen membership fee. Additionally, we hoped to fund our own market research, and to undertake some industry-boosting publicity campaigns.

Obviously, it didn't pan out. Volunteers, so plentiful in cheering us on, vanished when it came time to actually help generate the articles, or perform other tasks. There was no shortage of people willing to pay to join though, just no way of getting the work done without paying for it. Additionally, as Gravelsack pointed out, SEOs are not exactly a cohesive social group. They all have their own ideas of direction. Trying to keep any group of diverse SEOs (and diversity was needed if we were to cover the gamut of the trade) focused on any single objective is more than just difficult.

I want SEMPO to succeed. With those already associated with it, I truly believe it will. However, I too haven't yet heard more than vague ideas of direction (possibly the focus problem of our diverse trade?), and am yet to be told exactly why it makes sense for me personally to give a largish sum of cash to a group that haven't so much as asked me what I'd like from the group in return, as yet.

There's one thing I do believe though: that it is the members who will help decide the direction of SEMPO. In other words, if we want it to do certain things, then we really do need to join and get involved.

I'm hoping that several of the SEMPO reps will have a meeting around the SES in London, as they have with many of the other SES events, and if so, I'll certainly be seeking them out to talk about not only what SEMPO can do for me, but also what I can do in return to help it attain those goals.

If we're lucky, perhaps one of the SEMPO folks will step in and tell us what SEMPOs short and long term aims are, and how those will benefit us. I for one remain very much open to the idea of SEMPO, I just haven't quite heard enough about the actualities yet to open my wallet.

[bwelford]

... well, I always have a problem with acronyms. I've really got to work at them to fix them in my mind. In this case, dyslexia seems to creep in because I keep saying SEPMO - that's Search Engine Professionals Marketing Organization? No, no, that can't be right...

Actually as I thought around this one, I thought someone had missed a golden opportunity. Search Engine Marketing is only a subset of the whole subject of Internet Marketing. The Internet is so pervasive nowadays and it continues to grow at an astonishing pace. If marketing isn't including the Internet then it probably is very sub-optimal marketing. Internet marketing hardly needs to be promoted. Most business people are eagerly trying to find out how to do it.

However if an organization could help the growth, why not. So I'm about to launch a new organization, the Internet Marketing Professionals Society. This will use all revenues after administration costs to promote the cause of Internet Marketing. Membership will be open to the widest audience possible. If you wish to join, then for a limited time, you can join for the low, low fee of $ 24.99. By joining you will be helping the cause of Internet Marketing. You will also receive a numbered certificate of membership and will be entitled to use the title Internet Marketing Professional. This can be shortened to IMP after your name.

For the more respected members of our community, it is possible to have a grander designation. This again, for a limited time, can be acquired at the low, low fee of $ 99.99. In this case, confirmation is subject to peer review. If so confirmed, you will receive a numbered certificate of membership on vellum and will be entitled to use the title Worthy Internet Marketing Professional. This may be shortened to WIMP when used after your name.

The Society will work to further the goals of Internet Marketing as determined by its members. So get in on the ground floor and send off that cheque (check) today. I'm just waiting to get started.

[rustybrick]

Interesting thread. I joined as a "executive member" of SEMPO just to see. If it pans out, I will be joining at a 'higher' membership level. I have attended the first SEMPO meeting and posted my thoughts at SERoundtable.

Its a bit funny, this morning I posted at the blog "SEO Professionals Organization - SEOPros.org". Dan Thies encouraged me to take a deeper look at the SEOPros organization.

One thing I do agree with is that its going to be really hard to make a single organization for the diverse group of SEM/SEOs. If anyone of them can pull it off, I'll support them.

[projectphp]

Its gonna be like trying to herd cats. Too many different views and the market changes too quickly.

Disagree, not because what you say can't be true (or indeed will be true), but because if the goal / mission statement selected is broad and vague enough, it has a good chance to succeed. SEMPO has just such a goal:trying to promote SE as a marketting tool, i.e. increase the slice of pie dedicated to SE marketing out of the total available adspend. Taking market share away from TV ads, radio, classifieds etc is surely a goal that all those involved with SE at all can see as a positive step.

SEM includes SEO within it, so the problem remains.

Sure SEO is part of SEM, but that doesn't mean SE and SEOs are at war absolutely. SE themselves realise these days that not all clicks can feasibly be paid for, and that free clicks are part and parcel of the product they have to provide, aka the Google Business Model.

If a company spends money on SEO, it does not logically follow they wont spend money on PPC, especially not ever. Quite the opposite would be true, as I can think of very few that do SEO that haven't at least tried PPC. An interest in SE as a marketting tool is a good first step in using the wider range of products available. All those threads complaining about the monetary motivation of Florida could be viewed as an aknowledgement that, once hooked on SE as a marketting tool, many will inevitably be forced into PPC to cover the potential loses an algo change can bring.

That is not to say that SEs will ever have a love-in with SEOs, because they probably wont (at least I'm not holding my breath). But that doesn't change the fact that SEOs do a damn good job marketing SEM to the masses, and have a far greater reach than the SEs could ever have themselves. The goals of SEOs and SEs are not really that disparagate, and if a common ground can be found via an organisation like SEMPO, all the better.

Unless I see some more interesting answers to 'Whats in it for me?', I can't help but see it as another restrictive medieval type guild.

Absolutely agree. At the minute, the answer is probably not much. But that doesn't mean that next week, next month, next year that wont change. So the only good response is probably "I'll wait and see".

[wanderer]

will be entitled to use the title Worthy Internet Marketing Professional. This may be shortened to WIMP when used after your name.

Barry, I think you need one more level above that - the Perfect Internet Marketing Professional.
:wink:

[bwelford]

That is not to say that SEs will ever have a love-in with SEOs

I'm not sure about that, projectphp. I believe it's more one of those symbiotic relationships. Perhaps that's why one of the current items on the SEMPO home page is the following:

SEMPO Gets New Sponsor - Google
Thank you Google for joining SEMPO and for your generous support. Thanks also to Overture, GoToast, and JupiterMedia for their on-going support.

[glengara]

I could well support its' aims, but the tacky linking policy does not inspire confidence.

[projectphp]

That is not to say that SEs will ever have a love-in with SEOs

I'm not sure about that, projectphp. I believe it's more one of those symbiotic relationships.

OK, lets clarrify: SEO is the "we don't pay search engines" group, SEM is the "We pay SE" crowd. SEOs are not Search engines favourite people, SEMs they don't mind so much.

SEO and SE may be symbiotic, but so is the HIV Patient and an AIDS patient, and I don't think the AIDS patient is very happy about the symbiosys. (that is actually quite an extreme example)

I could well support its' aims, but the tacky linking policy does not inspire confidence.

Hmmmm. This is a weird one. SEM and SEOs shouldn't be promoting teh getting of links? That is an odd notion. In fact, if you were to advise any industry body, surely linking to members would be part of the recomendations. To assume that an SEM org wouldn't make that leap is very odd indeed, especially as the goal is to increase exposure of SEM, which by natuire means promoting its members. I understand people's concerns with such links (and the perceived price one pays), but sponsorship of non-profit orgs usually carries a link. I guess I just think these sorts of issues come from a very weird perspective.

[scottiecl]

SEMPO's aim is to promote search engine marketing awareness. So far, I haven't heard how they plan to do it. It's a good cause, but I'd like to know who they are targeting, and with what media, and how their budget is allocated.

I'd rather they call it a Promotional organization than a Professional organization, but that boat has sailed and they are sticking with it. I do think the term professional organization is misleading because most professional organizations have some sort of self-governing standards and SEMPO is proud to have none.

But- as their stated aims go - I'm still not convinced as to how they plan to do it and whether or not it will be effective. I hope it is!

[bwelford]

SEO is the \"we don't pay search engines\" group, SEM is the \"We pay SE\" crowd.

That's an interesting distinction you make, projectphp. I can hardly think that the SEM crowd does not do SEO. I thought it went as follows:

SEO is a subset of all SEM activities. However I'm not sure whether either of them really covers the whole business of bringing traffic to websites via other means, e.g. directories, trade databases, etc.

In turn, I believe SEM is a subset of all Internet Marketing activities. I believe that it's the totality of Internet Marketing activities that business folk should be using. I spend my efforts on encouraging the use of the total gamut of Internet Marketing tools.

Are these definitions generally accepted or do I have something wrong?

[invader]

hey barry

Exactly. It was hard for me to distinguish between the two.
I don't know about generally accepted either, but true for me.

A marketing consultant is a parent set and SEO'r is a part of it.
I hardly know people who just do SEO.

On SEMPO, volunteer run organizations are really driven and motivated.
I know that (working with Open Source) but lack cohesiveness.
Will be key to notice how they bring together efforts, channelize and market their motives. :idea:

$5k is a bit on the higher side for the so-not-well-off SEO.
Okay, for me, atleast. Damn, this indian currency thing.

[rustybrick]

I know plenty of people that just do "SEO". I personally don't limit my company but I know many that do.

[Black_Knight]

Yup, I've come across many SEOs who don't touch any of the paid stuff at all. If they never have, then I don't rate them very highly as SEOs, because a good SEO should always experiment.

I'm harsher on SEMs though, because to my thinking, anyone who only does PPC isn't an SEM or an SE-anything: the correct term for anyone who only buys advertising is an advertiser or advertising agency. An SEM should know all methods of marketing via search.

[invader]

I know plenty of people that just do \"SEO\".

Cool, but is it also how we define SEO ?

Linking Strategies, Usability Factors, Pay Per Click, PFI etc. - these things are generally considered in the larger prospective, that is web marketing.

So if we dis-include these activities, it's suprising to know people still do SEO as only for organic listings, and interesting to note why clients would not prefer a complete package. Less money ?

Curious, as usual. :roll: