So What Does SEMPO Mean To You? Options

[cre8pc]

I would to thank Barbara for answering member questions and holding up well under pressure

Kim

[rustybrick]

I second that.

[webmama]

Quote: Why aren't these [SEMPO member perks] only listed in the members-only section? If they are incentives to join, surely it makes sense to display them to your potential members.

Webmama Answer: This is an important question. It is clear that most members (over 75%) are not joining SEMPO for the perks. They are joining to support the mission of the organization and to 'donate' money, time and energy to make it happen. Most members want to see the SEM industry grow and flourish - giving them more clients who are willing to spend more money on SEM campaigns. Members are in for the long-run, because what we are talking about doing will take time.

That said, when people/companies bring us valuable discounts for our members, we want to offer them. They are specifically offered for the membership only, as part of the deal with the companies offering the perks. But it is a good idea to post on the 'join us' page on SEMPO at least the list of what is available to members with the links disabled. Thanks for the idea.

[Adrian]

joined primarily for the education materials/research that showed the value of SEM and because of their desire to influence the industry.

Could this include things like say sponsoring some research into various aspects of SEM and how it affects consumers?

Helping to produce tangiable data on how SEM can increase business and why a company should look to hiring a person or firm to handle it?

Seems to me, something along those kinds of lines would be quite useful in educating potential clients as to the benefits of SEM, while giving SEMP's creditable figures to back up what they may be saying to potential/current clients.

[Black_Knight]

It is clear that most members (over 75%) are not joining SEMPO for the perks. They are joining to support the mission of the organization and to 'donate' money, time and energy to make it happen.

That's not surprising I guess, Barbara. However, I think the suggestion was more that maybe the people who would join for the benefits are not joining at all because they don't realize there are any. This thread kinda showed that aspect of things.

I can tell you that there are a couple of companies who have joined so that they can show off their shiny SEMPO logo. A couple of really spammy proposals have been received by some clients already where the companies are very proudly claiming that their doorway generation service is endorsed by SEMPO. :roll:

Its that two sides of the same coin thing. You look at who has joined and why, while outsiders who do not join are more likely to look at who has not joined, and why.

[projectphp]

Likewise, nice work Barbara!!! This is a hard sell, and everywhere you have posted, the answers have been helpful, insightful and not at all swayed by the often open hostility. :glasses:

A couple of really spammy proposals have been received by some clients already where the companies are very proudly claiming that their doorway generation service is endorsed by SEMPO

OK, the absolute truth of the above quote aside, (did they really say endorsed?? no offence Ammon, that is just a very strong word, with specific conotations) it does raise an interesting question:

If a company claims to be endorsed, authorised or some other word that implies SEMPO approval, and / or veting, of a specific technique, program or company, what will SEMPO's response be?

To my mind, if the SEMPO brand is to mean anything, surely protecting it against such claims, which can only be false given the SEMPO mission statement and stated goals, is extremely important.

Not to hark back to revoking membership, but at its most base level, if nothing else is cause for dismissal, surely "taking the SEMPO name in vain" is.

[webmama]

If a company claims to be endorsed, authorised or some other word that implies SEMPO approval, and / or veting, of a specific technique, program or company, what will SEMPO's response be?

You are implying that we would 'police' the net to find people misusing the SEMPO logo or we would take the word (or whispers) of one or two of the abuser's competitors and take action on that? Won't happen.

Maybe we can add a statement to the thank you page that members get when they sign up for membership that states 'using this logo implies no certification by SEMPO, Inc. or compliance with a set of standards and is not to be used in this manner'. I will run this idea past the membership committee.

Honestly, we just don't have the time, money or infrastructure to worry about such things. And ProjectPHP - are you even a member yet? Why not join, offer to establish a legal committee within SEMPO and come up with a way to address these issues from within the organization. I expect late in this year this will come up on the agenda.

[Black_Knight]

I think the solution may be even simpler, Barbara. Just make it clearer that membership of SEMPO is not an endorsement of ability, but rather is available to anyone who wishes to simply see more attention (and budget) devoted to these forms of marketing.

I mean so plainly that even a hurried client checking out the people behind the company can see it. It is after all a major part of your mission statement (and this should lessen the bashing you ever have to take in any forums too as a side benefit ).

As it was, I had to direct my client to view the appropriate paragraphs at the SEMPO site (He'd already visited to see what SEMPO was, but had missed the relevant info) to see for himself how honestly these companies had presented their membership.

(And just for the record, because I can now see (thanks pphp) that it may influence how people perceive my possible intentions/bias in reporting, these were not competitors, since I am managing only one specific campaign element for these clients, one just PPC and the other just on training. I already advised them to seek elsewhere for other services because I didn't have the time for more available.)

[dannysullivan]

I think the solution may be even simpler, Barbara. Just make it clearer that membership of SEMPO is not an endorsement of ability... 

This is the paragraph Ammon's referring to. Thought it would be helpful for everyone to see:

"SEMPO is an industry organization designed to promote search engine marketing in general, not an accreditation body for SEM firms. Membership in SEMPO is not a guarantee of a particular firm's capabilities, nor does it signify industry approval or disapproval of their practices. Potential SEM customers should carefully research any SEM firm they are considering, SEMPO member or not, before establishing a business relationship."

This got added last year after the SEMPO launch, when similar concerns were raised on a different forum.

Currently, it's posted at the bottom of the SEMPO home page. After going through this thread yesterday, I passed along a suggestion to SEMPO that perhaps this should be made more prominent on the home page and in perhaps some other areas, such as above the members directory page and on the request for quote page.

That's something the board will have to decide -- I'm just on the advisory board. However, the fact you see that paragraph at all is a sign that SEMPO recognized early on they didn't want members to suggest SEMPO was providing some type of endorsement.

I think the paragraph was higher on the home page right after the SEMPO launch for the simple reason that when SEMPO was new, there wasn't much other material on the page.

So, hopefully you'll see that more prominent. But I thought it important to stress that this has long been part of the site and came directly out of discussions just like the one happening here.

[Black_Knight]

Thanks for clarifying that Danny, and for supporting the validity of this small but important constructively intended criticism.

Yes, the paragraph had been visible enough for me to note on prior visits, but right there at the bottom of the page, after all the tempting links to lead the first-time visitor away to other areas before they get that far, well, my client missed it.

Its certainly nowhere near as prominent as the earlier part where it says:

New \"Request for Services\" Feature
Looking for an easy way to get professional search engine marketers to review your needs? Try our new Request for Services feature. Just submit your requirements and they'll immediately be available for review by all SEMPO members!

Which does seem to indicate that SEMPO does indeed endorse its members ... it is certainly an easy inferrence for a visitor to take away at the very least.

At the moment, the paragraph that I and Danny mention, is at the very bottom of the page, and is the only area on the entire page that doesn't have some bold heading text or colour anywhere. Too low key? It was for my client.

[rustybrick]

Well, most my clients don't know what SEMPO is. So for your client to know what SEMPO means, you must of done a heck of a job educating.

I agree with you, the disclaimer needs to be more prominent. But, having the disclaimer too high might not be as attractive to the average SEMPO Web visitor - the ones who are thinking of joining for a fee. Whereas, the Request for Services service is a bit more appealing to the average SEMPO Web visitor.

[webmama]

I find this discussion very interesting and wanted to post a new thought.

It is obvious to the founding group of SEMPO and most of the members that we are doing this for the industry in the near-term and for our companies in the long run.

The target of all the material that has been written and will be written, the research that is in progress, the press/publications, the meetings, and the speaking engagements are clients and advertising agencies - not SEO/SEM companies. We promote the ROI and branding value of SEM, not the tactics. We want to see marketing dollars shifted from traditional marketing and other online marketing activities into SEM spends.

I have to admit I am always surprised by the comments of the SEO world. If you want to help get a bigger piece of the pie, say next year, then join today. If you don't want or need more clients spending more money through you, then don't join.

SEMPO needs a lot of members and a lot of money to target the sophisticated audience of marcom managers. If SEM is to really become a main stream marketing activity in the big business or small business community then someone needs to education those marcom people, and to calm their fears. Many, many of them are afraid of SEM - you can't budget it, you can't plan it for 1 year, it is still incredibily complicated and requires day to day supervision, some of it is slightly technical, and you are at the mercy of the media providers, many of whom are brand new at this game of supporting big brand companies.

Imagine this: You are marketing manager who is used to buying media in, say, glossy magazines to sell your company's product. You use a big shot advertising company who gives you a 1 year media plan. The plan shows the ads you are going to use (all highly graphical), the exact page you will be featured on and what article will be next to your ad, and they tell you exactly how much it will cost - for a YEAR! Can you imagine this happening in the search or contextual marketing world - no way - not today. Yes, our world is changing the way marketing is done but we also need to change our way to adapt to some of the 100 years of marketing traditions.

Stepping off soapbox now.

[Black_Knight]

At the risk of veering wildly off topic, I just had to reply (like that's unusual, right? ) on the matter of the 'imagine' bit.

Imagine this: You are marketing manager who is used to buying media in, say, glossy magazines to sell your company's product. You use a big shot advertising company who gives you a 1 year media plan. The plan shows the ads you are going to use (all highly graphical), the exact page you will be featured on and what article will be next to your ad, and they tell you exactly how much it will cost - for a YEAR! Can you imagine this happening in the search or contextual marketing world - no way - not today. Yes, our world is changing the way marketing is done but we also need to change our way to adapt to some of the 100 years of marketing traditions.

There is no need to imagine too hard, because some of SEMs already do present a one year plan in a similar manner. Better yet, they don't stop at just telling you the costs and showing where the ads will appear, but actually guarantee some level of ROI. I've yet to see any traditional advertising provide a cost-per-lead agreement. Yet many SEOs provide exactly that.

Barry Lloyd of MakeMeTop for instance, one of your members, makes proposals that are firmly anchored in a pay-for-performance basis. As side note that serves as a wonderful testament to SEMPO, he seems to be celebrating today having gained a rather large contract that he attributes directly to his membership in SEMPO.

Weirdly, his fellows at the forum seem to regard this as a further negative ( :?: ) but some people can read any meaning into anything I guess.

[BoxeySEO]

Curious to know how the current board came to be. It was my understanding they pretty much elected themselves. When will elections commence to add or replace current Board members?

When will a full accounting of the funds SEMPO has collected be available to the membership? They should be able to see where each dollar collected has been spent, on what and by whom.

[webmama]

Curious to know how the current board came to be. It was my understanding they pretty much elected themselves. When will elections commence to add or replace current Board members?

The 8 of us that are the current Board of Directors started SEMPO. It was formed from a group of people who attended Danny's Roundtable discussions at SES. We had been talking about forming an organization like SEMPO for over two years and finally I stepped up to lead the crowd. From the group of people who signed up to get involved in forming the organization, a few emerged as people who were willing to put some effort, time and money into it to get things started. That group became the Board of Directors.

We have by-laws that spell out the term of a Director and how they are to be replaced and/or elected. We will be opening a new Board member position up for members to nominate and then vote in. This will happen in 2004. Another Board member will be added from UK/Europe by London SES in June. This person will be appointed by the current Board based on their ability to mobilize volunteers to carry out the SEMPO mission in Europe.

The by-laws will be available to all members by the end of April (the SEMPO, Inc. year end) but will not be posted electronically. Not sure yet how we will handle requests for seeing the by-laws but we will figure it out by April 30, 2004.

When will a full accounting of the funds SEMPO has collected be available to the membership? They should be able to see where each dollar collected has been spent, on what and by whom.

It is the law that the balance sheet and income/expense sheet be made available to members of the organization at times dictated by the by-laws. This information will be delivered to members (or available in some other format TBD) by end of April 2004. The year end statement will be reviewed by our accountants before being posted to members. We will not be publishing the specific names of sponsors and members but the aggregate total of their contributions. We will disclose expenses by category (accounting, administration, marketing, research, tax, etc). All this is in accordance with the laws of the State of California for non-profit 501©3 organizations.

Disclaimer: Please note that any of the statements I made above may be held untrue if changes are made to the by-laws, the state laws, or the Board between now and the fiscal year end. Something I do not anticipate happening but I wanted you to make sure that I am responding with the best information I have to date about how SEMPO works.

[bwelford]

Thanks for your informative answers, webmama.

I see that on the SEMPO website there is a complete Member Directory. It might be of interest for readers here to know the size of the organization as it stands at the moment. Are you able to provide the numbers of members in each category, i.e. SEMPO Circle, Supporters, Contributors and Executive Members?

[webmama]

I don't know how many members off the top of my head. You can count them from the member directory - which is exactly what I would do to provide the information to the forum. The interesting thing is to count the 'outside-US' members - and we don't official launch SEMPO in UK/Europe until June!

[webmama]

Thanks to the forum for all your input. This is the disclaimer that now appears on the request services page on the sempo website:

NOTE: SEMPO provides this as a free service to its members, and does not participate in the transaction beyond this point. We do not endorse any particular company or SEM technique. Please note that you should always exercise best judgment when hiring any advertising services firm, and that some SEM firms use more aggressive techniques than others. You may want to read this article on Choosing an SEM Company, and ask questions of vendors before making your final decision.

[bwelford]

I was hoping you would save me having to count.

I get the following numbers:
SEMPO Circle - 29
Supporters - 11
Contributors - 19
Executive Members - 126

That's impressive growth in such a relatively short time. With that number of members and the $220,000 US in annual fees that that represents, you should be able to have quite an impact.

[BoxeySEO]

Thank you.

While I understand that like life, SEMPO will learn as it grows and expands, I will say that any organization that wants to be taken seriously or given the respect they feel they deserve should have come out of the blocks in a more professional manner and gotten feedback such as you're getting now at the git-go.

I attended the SEMPO meeting in San Jose where it was obvious that SEMPO Board members and you in particular were NOT interested in taking questions from audience members. Do I blame you? Given the tension in the air and the rumblings that surrounded it's debut, probably not. But to have been more open about what the group needed might have been a better approach. It was an avoidance tactic (one that worked I might add) and projected a negative feeling....so can you really blame people for cocking an eye toward SEMPO?

Credo's to you and the others from SEMPO that post and give explantations. However, while it's easy to do this from behind a computer screen, it's more effective to do in person. Perhaps at the next SES or other industry related conference the Board members could make a point to stop and meet the people in the bar, at the sessions or in the meetings that make up the vast majority of the SEO community. Wear a button or a nametag that identifies you as a Board member so people can approach YOU all.

I'm going to end by saying respect is a two-way street. If you want respect, you have to give it first. I think I speak for a number of people when I say I want to belong to an organization that has a good reputation, one that I can be proud of, contribute to and get something out of. I think you've done a good job of getting a website up, tweaking the verbiage and being mindful of the legal issues. You're on the right track.

Now focus on the people and watch what happens!