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Shift in Usage of IE to other Browsers


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#1 DianeV

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 02:43 PM

I clipped this out of my post in another thread, as I think it's pretty important.

From Upsdell.com, August 7, 2004:

Microsoft Internet Explorer: [b]Roughly 85% use IE-based browsers, down from a high of ~94% as users switch to other browser families - mainly Gecko - with this downward trend likely to continue as the alternate browsers improve and as IE remains stagnant with no planned upgrade for several years.
http://www.upsdell.c...stat_trends.htm


Emphasis mine.

The article also notes that "The reported percentage of users varies a lot, likely in large part because many stats sources (a) are not properly identifying non-Netscape Gecko browsers, and (B) may wrongly identify Opera or Safari as a Gecko browser." Not to mention that many Opera users have it configured to identify itself as IE.

This will hopefully give a little different picture of reality to those who have been designing -- for years -- for IE only. The things to remember are two: (a) things change, and (B) correct coding should display correctly in all browsers.

#2 Minna

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 03:07 PM

"Roughly 85%" sounds still pretty much? My sites stats say even 97.43 % use IE.
I have often faced the problem what to do, if something looking good in most browsers is awful with IE (or vice versa).

#3 DianeV

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 03:13 PM

You may be right, Minna. On the other hand, your stats may be incorrect per the Upsdell article above. Consider that, for a website getting 1000 users per day, perhaps 150 of them will not see the website as intended, or will not be able to use it if it's an e-commerce site.

Correct, standard coding will generally give you the same look in all browsers. A little care taken to learn and correctly implement HTML goes a long ways.

#4 ac

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 07:08 PM

I downloaded the Firefox browser and it seems to be fine, but is this simply another version of the Netscape browser?

It continues to send messages to Netscape, can someone explain..... :shock:

#5 BillSlawski

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 07:09 PM

It's a variant of Mozilla - as is netscape.

#6 ac

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 07:19 PM

Brag, what is it always sending messages back for?

Someone on a forum the other day wrote that the Netscape Browser was spyware, have you ever heard that?

Do these browsers collect page views?

#7 Adrian

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 07:20 PM

Mozilla, Firefox and Newer versions of Netscape all use the Gecko rendering engine, and when Netscape mostly shut down, a lot of the staf went to the Moz Foundation, which also produces Firefox. You probably will find a lot of cross talk between Moz/Firefox and Netscape.

#8 ac

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 07:24 PM

Does this browser automatically update itself or do you have a way of checking for updates?

#9 kensplace

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 07:53 PM

Bill ignored the internet for years, then jumped on the bandwagon. Now He is just riding of previous success, and in my opinion, clueless.

He is a clever bloke, no doubt about it, but only in the respect that everything he does is to make more money. Its not about the dream, he lost that years ago - and I bet he doesnt even realise that yet.

#10 Allergic

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 07:59 PM

It is always a question of the nature of the site. For a general e-commerce site (around 4,000 user sessions/day) my data is IE lost 1% and is at 93%.

But if you take log from techies site like SourceForge you got 67% for IE and 23.9% for Firefox/Mozilla!

I downloaded the Firefox browser and it seems to be fine, but is this simply another version of the Netscape browser?


With the Tab browsing and the Custom Keywords like you can see in this other thread, you will see is a very useful browser, and less vulnerable than IE to virus and whorms, who is too closely integrate in the OS.

#11 kensplace

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 08:06 PM

I have my opera set to identify itself as I.E to make it more compatible with more sites. So Im part of your i.e stats, but used opera........

#12 ac

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 08:59 PM

http://www.thechanne...,1619762,00.asp

More intelligence on the IE issues is in the above article, my next computer will be a MAC, I am done with M$

#13 DianeV

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 09:26 PM

I generally have Webalizer for stats, but have never quite been able to read something like this;

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; YPC 3.0.1)

This means little to me; does it mean the browser was IE6 on an NT machine? If so, what's the point of mentioning Mozilla, or "compatible"?

#14 ac

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 09:32 PM

Sure G will be able to tell you when he gets back, beats me Diane

#15 Ruud

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 11:04 PM

The first part tells you a little bit about the "engine" on which the browser is built.

It says it is "compatible; MSIE 6.0" which considering the Mozilla 4 probably means it is IE.

It runs on Windows XP.

If I'm right the YPC is related to the Yahoo toolbar installed on the system.

A good extensive list of browser ID's certainly helps: everybody can say anything and nothing in the user agent although most of the time it is used to trick a website into thinking a browser of another type (usually IE) is present or to cover the tracks of mass downloaders such as site-slurpers and email harvest bots.

Ruud

#16 DianeV

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 11:15 PM

Thanks, Ruud. I've always assumed that if IE is mentioned, it's IE. Though I can't think why it would also mention Mozilla.

The browser strings reference is a good one. Thanks.

#17 ac

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 11:20 PM

That is one long list Ruud, great tool, thanks for the source.

#18 Ruud

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 11:51 PM

Masquerading your browser puts it as:

Note that most browsers today identify themselves using the "Mozilla" — an early name for the Navigator browser — product name, even if they are not derived from the original Netscape Navigator browser. Notice in the listing above that even Microsoft's Internet Explorer identifies itself using the "Mozilla" product name to indicate that it is roughly compatible to a specific version of Navigator or its successors.


It's odd though, yes :-)

Ruud

#19 DianeV

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 12:01 AM

That explains it. Many server log browser entries can be deciphered, but the confusion entered due to the pervasive use of "Mozilla" ... which, of course, was the most-used browser in the late '90s.

Kudos for the great resources.

Mozilla (compatible; Diane)

#20 projectphp

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 01:17 AM

Opera lets you change your UA to one of 5 UA - An Opera one, an MSIE on, and 4 Mozilla ones. I think there is a Mozilla UA toolbar that lets you set you UA to whatever you like. Some people set it to Google's to check for cloaking, ohters just annoy people with UA's like GetLost.

#21 DianeV

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 01:31 AM

Right. Since I use Opera a lot, I've switched the UA around for different sites that can't be used with anything but IE/NS/Mozilla. (You know, the ones that always demand that you get a "modern" browser. LOL)

That said, I just tried it on my site and looked at the logs:

"Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0) Opera 7.54 [en]"

Shows IE, but still identifies as Opera. But less so, I guess.

#22 Thox

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 03:43 AM

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; YPC 3.0.1)

This means little to me; does it mean the browser was IE6 on an NT machine? If so, what's the point of mentioning Mozilla, or "compatible"?

Heh, there's a weird little story about this.

A very good source of information can be found on the Quirksmode Javascript - Browser detect page

In brief: Netscape 1 was cool, it had some nice features. It was powered by an engine called "Mozilla", so that's why it's at the front of the user agent string. Lots of sites used browser detection to check for the "Mozilla" part to offer the Netscape users advanced features. When Microsoft copied these features they also had to copy the "Mozilla" string, otherwise the sites wouldn't offer them the advanced features.

That's all ancient history.

Everyone by now must have heard of all the security issues in IE? There's hundreds of them. For instance: if an IE user went to this page, then their browser would crash!

I think times have moved on and more and more people are realising that there are better browsers than IE out there. W3Schools (a great resource for new and old developers) has a browser statistics page, clearly showing a trend for IE going down and better browsers (Mozilla / Firefox) going up.

Of course, I use Firefox 0.9.3 - the most up-to-date browser there is :)

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040803 Firefox/0.9.3

#23 DianeV

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 03:51 AM

Ah, that's interesting information. Thanks for filling me in; it's "little" not-understood things like this that can make everything else seem more complicated and obtuse than it is.

#24 Pivik

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 06:09 AM

Hey I went to that page..nothing happened, what gives? It just says something about it being a demo page. You sure you coded it right :D?

#25 bwelford

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 01:01 PM

BTW if you're not happy with IE, here's a website to help you find another browser.

#26 ac

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 07:33 AM

Thanks for the source Barry, I think you and Adrian work together, is that right?

#27 Eddie

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 07:38 AM

<html>
<head>
<style>@;/*</style>
<title>Browser Crash?</title>
</head>
<body>
<p>This page is a demonstration in a flaw in Internet Explorer. I don't recommend viewing this page in that browser!</p>
</body>
</html>


Really ? I don't think so :lol:



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