Jump to content

Cre8asiteforums Internet Marketing
and Conversion Web Design


Photo

outsourcing links


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 stephen000

stephen000

    Ready To Fly Member

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 01:01 PM

anybody know a good company(ies) that find links for you? (not the link farm variety)

#2 Black_Knight

Black_Knight

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 9339 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 01:27 PM

No.

Moreover, I wouldn't trust anyone but myself to do so. No vested interest in quality, no care for repurcussions.

#3 NorthStar

NorthStar

    Mach 1 Member

  • Members
  • 272 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 04:36 PM

I consult for a company that has a web linking program as part of their SEO services. I also have clients of my own that hire me to optimize their sites and build link popularity. Since Google puts so much emphasis on link popularity I don't feel comfortable working with clients that don't commit to consistently building the number of quality inbound links. As per the comment about "not trusting anyone" to do this for you...I agree with that for the most part. Most SEO and Internet Marketing companies aren't to be trusted and few deliver results that increase the bottom line of their client's business. So why would clients trust me to build their inbound links?

1) My results are my new business tools. When I have a prospective new client I can show them one of my other clients with #1 rankings on Google for highly competitive terms. Then I can have them call up that client as a reference. Very effective.

2) I'm getting paid each month for the link building service. When I do a good job, the client's site ranks higher, makes more money, and the client wants to keep paying me. I find the best long-term business strategies are always win-win. And this is win-win.

I believe you can find people to do this work for you and get results. You just need to make sure you find someone who knows how to do it and has a proven track record.

That said, I also think you should consider doing it yourself. If you are planning on being in business for the long term and plan to be doing business via the interent for the long term you should ALWAYS be building your inbound links. And while SEO may require real expertise, buildiing link popularity does not after you know the basics. It is grunt work that takes a lot of time. I'd recommend having an internal resource do it.

Good luck.

#4 DianeV

DianeV

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 7216 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 04:47 PM

There is also, depending on the client's sphere (topic), the requesting of links that are *not* reciprocal. This can run into the hundreds of websites, small and large directories, etc., which list companies within a particular sphere.

Apart from the obvious benefits with respect to Google, such listings can add credibility to a company as well as bringing in very targetted traffic over the short and long haul -- after all, who would be visiting such topical directories if not potential customers?

This was how it was done in the "old" days (1997), before anyone had ever heard of PageRank. Such links could keep traffic steady regardless of fluctuations in search engine algorithms.

I think I will clip this into my next newsletter.

#5 salzburg

salzburg

    Unlurked Energy

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:20 PM

Debra O'Neil-Mastaler's company Alliance-Link has a good reputation for building link popularity. I think Jill can vouch for her too.

#6 Advisor

Advisor

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 1142 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:28 PM

Very good point, Diane!

And yes, Johann, I can definitely vouch for Debra. She handles all my link building work.

Jill

#7 Black_Knight

Black_Knight

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 9339 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 07:36 PM

I like the part of Debra's work that is based on non-reciprocal links.

I mean, what is the point of a reciprocal link without an actual partnership on some level?

Reciprocal links are too often about someone with no pagerank thinking that their link has value in pagerank ... huh? :roll:

For me, I just don't trust the people who go for reciprocal linking strategies. Either they will go too far themselves and become a bad neighbourhood, or one of the people who accepted their reciprocal link request will, giving them the same effect: a PR0 penalty.

Google are more concerned about link exchanges than about invisible text most of the time, as shown by the very fact that the PR penalty exists. Google will continue to tighten and tighten up loopholes in detecting and penalizing PR manipulation until it is no longer possible.

Thus link-swaps and reciprocal-links are self-destructive, and a bad move for anyone who wants long-term Google stability.

It isn't needed.

Its a piece of cake to earn a PR6 without any expense and without reciprocal links. Any professional should be able to gain PR7 for any site through building content, submitting articles, etc, again, without a single reciprocal link.

#8 Guest_scottiecl_*

Guest_scottiecl_*
  • Guests

Posted 18 June 2003 - 08:41 PM

Debra has some very creative ideas for getting links and it is definitely worth giving her a call if you are interested. Linking campaigns can be very time-consuming.

For e-commerce sites, she is has some creative things that tie into promotions, sales, or other "specials". She definitely goes beyond letter-writing to request a reciprocal link.

#9 Aaron

Aaron

    Gravity Master Member

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 19 June 2003 - 07:41 AM

Thought I'd chime in here.

A service that we've recently (last 3 months) officially started "selling" is a link development service (NO, I am not promoting our services).

Our service is based around a research first and action next approach.

We devote a certain number of hours to determining various direct link and viral (expanded reach) partnerships that could be established with other websites/directories.

We also devote a certain number of hours to actually finding quality sites in which our client would benefit from in obtaining a link (and reciprocating if needed).

We prepare a report which details all sites, benefits of a link from (and to), URL/Email Address link request, etc.

In this report we also provide sample templates of emails that our clients *could* use to contact the sites to request a link.

Furthermore, we also indicate a price to complete the "action" part of the campaign and establish a communication with the sites to request a link.

A win-win for both parties in that our clients receive a fully researched and documented report with potential link partners and the ability to complete the process themselves with step-by-step instruction. Or for the non DIY, they can have us complete the process for them.

Just my thoughts on a topic that our clients seem to be very receptive to since fully introducing the service offering.

Aaron

#10 Guest_scottiecl_*

Guest_scottiecl_*
  • Guests

Posted 19 June 2003 - 12:40 PM

Sounds like a good service, Aaron. :rainbow1:

#11 Aaron

Aaron

    Gravity Master Member

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 19 June 2003 - 12:43 PM

Thanks Scottie.

Congratulations on your new appointment here at Cre8asite Forums, by the way :)

Aaron

#12 Guest_scottiecl_*

Guest_scottiecl_*
  • Guests

Posted 19 June 2003 - 03:59 PM

Gracias, amigo~

#13 sanity

sanity

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 6889 posts

Posted 19 June 2003 - 04:48 PM

A win-win for both parties in that our clients receive a fully researched and documented report with potential link partners and the ability to complete the process themselves with step-by-step instruction. Or for the non DIY, they can have us complete the process for them.

Excellent strategy Aaron. I've been doing something similar lately and it really has worked well.

As many have mentioned here link development campaigns can be a time consuming business which tends to push the price up. This approach shows allows them to decide how far they want you to go and also helps show them why they can be costly in the first place. I've had a few clients that initially opted to contact sites for links themselves but after starting and seeing the time involved handed it over to me.

#14 Aaron

Aaron

    Gravity Master Member

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 20 June 2003 - 07:22 AM

A win-win for both parties in that our clients receive a fully researched and documented report with potential link partners and the ability to complete the process themselves with step-by-step instruction. Or for the non DIY, they can have us complete the process for them.

Excellent strategy Aaron. I've been doing something similar lately and it really has worked well.

As many have mentioned here link development campaigns can be a time consuming business which tends to push the price up. This approach shows allows them to decide how far they want you to go and also helps show them why they can be costly in the first place. I've had a few clients that initially opted to contact sites for links themselves but after starting and seeing the time involved handed it over to me.


Indeed, Sanity.

A big problem with outsourced link development campaigns is the varied results.

What I mena by this is, we could spend 5 hours researching links and only come up with say 20 sites with which would suit a partnership with our clients and their industry. My client will look at the report and say I paid $XXX for only 20 websites?

Yet at the same time, we could research for 5 hours and come up with 100 (and potentially more if the time were increased).. which obviously comes a great deal for the client.

Now.. to add another wrinkle into the mix.. of the sites researched and documented, whether 20 or 100, if say only 10% are willing to provide a link then again.. the client looks at that and could feel very disappointed in the achievewd results for the money they paid.

ANY link development is a crap shoot at best. However, it is soo worthwhile for a lot of sites. Example:

Recent client whose site we just launched obviously wanted to start drawing targeted traffic rather quickly. Deciding not to go for PFI right now as that would have required development of landing pages which ment more $$$ than was in his current budget we went for a link campaign.

Now.. Google did take hold of the site 3 weeks after it was launched (22 days actually) but in the short term.. the 25 sites they received links from were generating 35-50 Uniques/day which in turn resulted in some quick sales.

Needless to say my client was b-l-o-w-n away :D

Just my thoughts :)

Aaron

#15 stephen000

stephen000

    Ready To Fly Member

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 20 June 2003 - 01:01 PM

Thanks for all the input. In essence I'm looking to cut the time of this process, and I know if I say that, all the moderators will just tell me to do it the right way. However I think there are folks out there who simply do not have the time to spend doing this for a long list of clients, all of whom require specific links. I believe sometimes SEO's have to make tough decisions because it's a competitive field out there.

There are shortcuts, actually that work quite well. Some web dev's just create a humongous site with dynamic content that generate thousands of pages, each one with a link to the target site. Whether this site is about websites or goats, it will boast the PR of the link target. There are other ways. The problem with these forums is that you are always pushed to do it "the right way" when their are easier ways to do things. I mean even the moderators on this site use keyword text to link back to their site from hundreds of posts - I think that would count as artificially inflating your PR...

#16 Advisor

Advisor

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 1142 posts

Posted 20 June 2003 - 01:17 PM

You're right, Stephen, there's always easier ways. They're just not necessarily the best way if you're serious about your business and its long-term success.

You can go around and constantly chase your tail trying to stay ahead of the latest spam filters, or you can just do things on the "up and up" and get better and better rankings over time.

Nobody's stopping you from doing it your way. Most of us just like to advise people of ways that conform to "best business practices."

Jill

#17 Aaron

Aaron

    Gravity Master Member

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 20 June 2003 - 05:03 PM

Nobody's stopping you from doing it your way.  Most of us just like to advise people of ways that conform to "best business practices."

Jill


Ditto to Jill.

Aaron

#18 Black_Knight

Black_Knight

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 9339 posts

Posted 21 June 2003 - 01:49 AM

Thanks for all the input. In essence I'm looking to cut the time of this process, and I know if I say that, all the moderators will just tell me to do it the right way.


That's likely to be true. The moderators are chosen because they give good advice. Putting someone who consistently gave poor advice, that could lead you into trouble, in a position of (implied) responsibility wouldn't really be a good thing. :)

However I think there are folks out there who simply do not have the time to spend doing this for a long list of clients, all of whom require specific links. I believe sometimes SEO's have to make tough decisions because it's a competitive field out there.


Which is why I never out-source my own link-building, nor that of my clients, to any unknown third-party. Making tough decisions with someone else's business empire is always easy.

Thing is that its actually easier to do it right first time. The job done right lasts forever. A job done in haste, with corner-cutting, always needs more maintenance, and may collapse without warning.

There are other ways. The problem with these forums is that you are always pushed to do it "the right way" when their are easier ways to do things.


Stephen, the "right" way is the easy way. The shortcut is the hard way. The fact that you don't already know this for yourself shows you're judging things you haven't actually done.

The right way is to make good content/features that attract links. You build it and virtually forget it. It will get links all on its own, automatically, as you simply promote the site.

If that can't fly, because you just can't think of anything worth linking to to put in the content, then there are still the possibilities for publishing articles, giving testimonials to others, or a whole raft of things that again, you do once and can then forget.

The right way, every moment is spent in building more and better effects.

Yes there are shortcuts. Most of them are actively opposed (and hunted) by all major search engines, with Google heading the witch-hunt. Virtually every PR penalty ever given has a 'shortcut' to gaining PR at the heart of it.

Taking the shortcuts means sending off tons of unsolicited mail, which will be rejected more often than accepted. Of the rejections, you'll never know what percentage will carry forward a negative impression of your business from then on.

Taking the shortcut means taking risks that are literally often like flipping a coin. Heads your PR goes up, Tails you get a PR penalty. Taking a shortcut means you are betting that you are so smart that 50 scientists at the search engine, and every competitor you have, won't be smart enough to work out what you've done, given months and months to work it out.

Taking a shortcut means having to keep checking that none of your reciprocal links were 'bait-n-switch' jobs, where a month after you've agreed to the link, they drop (or prevent being crawled) the link they gave you, and thus hoard their PR.

Taking a shortcut just involves a lot more work.

I know of hundreds of SEOs who spend weeks mailing sites to get just a handful of reciprocal links that they'll have to watch careully. In half that time I can do it right, and get three times as many links which will grow automatically even further with each passing month.

The right way is the easy way.

even the moderators on this site use keyword text to link back to their site from hundreds of posts - I think that would count as artificially inflating your PR...

:D
Stephen, check the redirect script we use and the robots.txt of the forum.

All links in posts are made non-crawlable so that people with PR penalties can still use their url in their signature lines, or people can point to sites that are penalized without making the forum part of a bad neighborhood. If you think about it, without that protection, a forum would act a bit like an FFA links directory with a lot of text between the links. It would soon be penalized itself, and thus unable to help people searching for answers.

The point you have missed is that the high PR of many of the moderators' sites is what gave Cre8asite its PR in the first place. Not the other way around. :)

#19 projectphp

projectphp

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 3935 posts

Posted 22 June 2003 - 08:43 PM

I mean even the moderators on this site use keyword text to link back to their site from hundreds of posts - I think that would count as artificially inflating your PR...

Ah, no. Links help, yes, but most posts are very low PR pages with multiple links out, which wont really help PR much at all. (NB: Ammon, there ARE Fora that DO let you post an actual URL, just have a look around). And as for Keywords helping PageRank, that is not true: It helps RELEVANCE NOT PageRank, and besides, you can put ANYTHING in a link you like, there is nothing "artificial" about it.

Seriously, trying to find shortcuts only hurts in the long run, and the Goal of Links should be relevant, related traffic first and foremost, and PR and Link Popularity a (very) distant second.

#20 Black_Knight

Black_Knight

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 9339 posts

Posted 22 June 2003 - 09:10 PM

(NB: Ammon, there ARE Fora that DO let you post an actual URL, just have a look around)


I'm well aware of that, projectphp, since I had to help devise this particular modification we use. Forums of this type (webmaster forums) naturally draw a lot of posts from people who are, or may be, linked into bad neighbourhoods. Linking repeatedly to bad neighborhoods swiftly makes you a part of that bad neighborhood.

Forums of this type (webmaster forums) naturally include people with actual google penalties, asking how to get them removed (or at least, how to diversify their SEO so that the penalty won't crush them).

Many other forums which allow links, are not themselves regularly spidered, because they often neglect to modify the forum code to remove sessionIDs and not require a cookie to be present. Those forums, which are the vast majority, don't need to worry about blocking links, because they will almost never get crawled anyway.

WebmasterWorld is about the largest of the webmaster forums, and they prevented spiders following profile links, etc too.

<added>Webmasterworld no longer seems to be using the robots exclusions to prevent indexing or link-following of profiles, at least not visibly, though it is entirely possible they serve the spiders a different robots.txt. However, I believe their out-bound link redirection script works much as ours does now.</added>

We know what we are doing here, and as a veteran of many forums, I'm well aware of what many other forums do. :lol:



RSS Feed

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users