Jump to content

Cre8asiteforums Internet Marketing
and Conversion Web Design


Photo

Copyrights and Reviews


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 okguyjames

okguyjames

    Ready To Fly Member

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 08 January 2006 - 05:28 PM

I'm contemplating providing a large selection of detailed reviews for traditional board games on my site. I would like to include, with the review, basic information and graphics relating to each of these games. Such items might be a graphic of the actual game and the provided game description from the appropriate game publisher.

My questions would be:

1. What types of copyright issues could I be dealing with providing reviews of this type?
2. With many sites already offering reviews of games (especially video games), are the graphics and descriptions of games commonly considered fair use for the purpose of reviews?

If anyone has some information or experience with these matters, I'd love to hear some advice. Thanks.

#2 Nadir

Nadir

    Light Speed Member

  • Members
  • 976 posts

Posted 08 January 2006 - 05:35 PM

I'm glad you asked this question as I was wondering the same kind of stuff.

I'm building a news site and let's say when a major newspaper publishes a story that I find interesting, I 'd like to talk about this story on my site and also use the images that they used.
For example, CNN publishes an article about the War in Irak and use a picture of Soldiers, if I talk about this article and provide a link to it, am I allowed to use the same image?

#3 AbleReach

AbleReach

    Peacekeeper Administrator

  • Site Administrators
  • 6467 posts

Posted 08 January 2006 - 08:26 PM

You should always ask.
Even if you think you know, ask.

Talking about someone else's content from your own perspective normally creates something that is your own content.

Using their images is using their images.

Elizabeth

#4 Anna Johnson

Anna Johnson

    Ready To Fly Member

  • Members
  • 36 posts

Posted 08 January 2006 - 11:03 PM

I would like to include, with the review, basic information and graphics relating to each of these games. Such items might be a graphic of the actual game and the provided game description from the appropriate game publisher.

My questions would be:

1. What types of copyright issues could I be dealing with providing reviews of this type?
2. With many sites already offering reviews of games (especially video games), are the graphics and descriptions of games commonly considered fair use for the purpose of reviews?


Hi okguyjames,

I've had a lot of experience with this kind of thing (my previous company reviewed a lot of software). I'm also a non-practising IT/IP lawyer. (I like marketing more :) )

As long as you use your own words - you don't copy extensive passages from the material on/in the game - the review as such would be owned by you - no copyright infringement. It's usually okay to quote a sentence or two if you use quotes and attribute the quote to the game publisher.

As far as reproducing the graphics and game description goes, that's technically copyright infringement UNLESS you have the game publisher's permission. And, in most cases, they either have a written policy somewhere on their website that permits you to reproduce certain materials for the purpose of reviews OR you can ask them and they'll be willing to give it to you. If you can't find any such policy, you'll have to ask.

BTW, a lot of sites don't ask and don't care - but you obviously want to do the right thing, so good on you!

#5 Anna Johnson

Anna Johnson

    Ready To Fly Member

  • Members
  • 36 posts

Posted 08 January 2006 - 11:07 PM

I'm building a news site and let's say when a major newspaper publishes a story that I find interesting, I 'd like to talk about this story on my site and also use the images that they used.
For example, CNN publishes an article about the War in Irak and use a picture of Soldiers, if I talk about this article and provide a link to it, am I allowed to use the same image?

View Post


Hi Nadir,

Now you're talking dangerous territory.

Talking about a news story (using your own words) is fine. Quoting a sentence or two and attributing the quote to the author and publisher is okay too. Including a link to the story is probably okay too.

But reproducing the same image is not okay - it's copyright infringement. And, unlike games manufacturers (!), CNN and the like are NOT likely to let you do this.

Good luck!

#6 AbleReach

AbleReach

    Peacekeeper Administrator

  • Site Administrators
  • 6467 posts

Posted 08 January 2006 - 11:12 PM

Anna,

Welcome to cre8asite!
Thanks for your informative reply. This question does come up frequently. :)


Elizabeth

#7 bragadocchio

bragadocchio

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 15634 posts

Posted 08 January 2006 - 11:35 PM

Welcome to the forums, Anna.

Thanks for the informative posts. It's great having you join us here.

okguyjames,

Along with the copyright concerns, many game owners and manufacturers are concerned about the use of their trademarks.

As Anna noted, many web sites from game manufacturers may have sections of their sites set up for the media, that may spell out some materials that you can use. These might be in a section on copyright, or trademark, or the media. It doesn't hurt to look around.

It really doesn't hurt to ask them, and there may even be a few benefits to asking. Since the manufacturers of these games may want the word spread, they may be willing to provide some type of statement or something - a quote maybe that you could use, or even a short interview.

#8 okguyjames

okguyjames

    Ready To Fly Member

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 08 January 2006 - 11:40 PM

Thanks for your help Anna (and Nadir-AbleReach). I knew I was flirting with fair use, but not quite dating yet. . .

:flowers:

Edit: and bragadocchio!

Edited by okguyjames, 08 January 2006 - 11:41 PM.


#9 Nadir

Nadir

    Light Speed Member

  • Members
  • 976 posts

Posted 09 January 2006 - 12:29 AM

Thanks Anna and all! Well, I do know that many people use images from other websites when they write a story and I'm pretty sure they don't ask. That's why I asked, because I thought that as long that you provide a link to their site, that would allow you to use a few quotes from their story and also maybe the image they used....

#10 bwelford

bwelford

    Peacekeeper Administrator

  • Site Administrators
  • 9005 posts

Posted 09 January 2006 - 05:29 AM

Welcome to the Forums, Anna. :wave:

I've always felt that forgiveness is easier to obtain than approval ...

I just wanted to push this flirting notion a little. If you had a thumbnail version of an image, that was associated with a hyperlink to the article in which the image appeared, would this be as acceptable as a quote of a sentence or two of the news item.

#11 AbleReach

AbleReach

    Peacekeeper Administrator

  • Site Administrators
  • 6467 posts

Posted 09 January 2006 - 06:10 AM

What would an excerpt of an image look like? How many pixels wide wouldja want that slice? ;-)
:rofl:

Sorry... it's late here. I may be sleeping.

#12 okguyjames

okguyjames

    Ready To Fly Member

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 09 January 2006 - 08:58 PM

If you had a thumbnail version of an image, that was associated with a hyperlink to the article in which the image appeared, would this be as acceptable as a quote of a sentence or two of the news item.

View Post


that's an interesting twist. is there accompanying text with the thumbnail? in my limited knowledge of fair use it seems that you'd technically still need permission from the original source. I saw where one user had stated, "But it's free advertisement..." and the reply was that it is up to the original source to decide whether or not they want the attention in that manner or not.

#13 AbleReach

AbleReach

    Peacekeeper Administrator

  • Site Administrators
  • 6467 posts

Posted 09 January 2006 - 09:10 PM

Seriously, if it's someone else's image, you can't use it without permission, even if you make a thumbnail of it.

If the reviews are of commercially available games, you could be able to get pics through the representative's marketing department.

Ya gotta ask. :-)

#14 Nadir

Nadir

    Light Speed Member

  • Members
  • 976 posts

Posted 09 January 2006 - 09:13 PM

Does anyone know where to get pictures related to the news?
Is there like a good online source for journalism?

Edited by Nadir, 09 January 2006 - 09:14 PM.


#15 Respree

Respree

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 5901 posts

Posted 09 January 2006 - 09:21 PM

I'd be surprised if you get an answer, Nadir.

I'm guessing, but I imagine the 'big' news sources take the pictures themselves (or have a pool of freelance photographers they buy them from). To have a library of news photos, well, I guess it wouldn't be the (current) news.

I could be wrong. :)

#16 Nadir

Nadir

    Light Speed Member

  • Members
  • 976 posts

Posted 09 January 2006 - 09:39 PM

But what about small news sites :) I won't have journalists or photographers, my site is mainly going to be a review of the news, but with my personal approach, you see what I mean?

#17 okguyjames

okguyjames

    Ready To Fly Member

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 09 January 2006 - 10:44 PM

Nadir,

For general news there may be several options you might explore concerning images. Perhaps stock photos could supplant the news image (for example, an old picture of David Hasselhoff could replace the current one ;-) etc.). And what about general graphics such as a Stock News logo (with the classic zig-zagging market graph) or Tech News logo (which a pic of Wit) to replace the original graphic? Your original logo would immediately identify your work, and hopefully separate it from the original (with varying text of course).

#18 Nadir

Nadir

    Light Speed Member

  • Members
  • 976 posts

Posted 09 January 2006 - 11:01 PM

Oh yeah you're right, I didn't think about that possibility, thanks.

#19 kensplace

kensplace

    Time Traveler Member

  • 1000 Post Club
  • 1497 posts

Posted 10 January 2006 - 12:31 AM

A small thumbnail image should fall under "fair use" as its not the original image, but it lets people know what you are on about.

As for using the original image, always get permission, forgiveness may be easier to obtain in general than permission, but someone took that photo, and someone paid for it. Copying that photo may seem innocent, after all they are a big site that is being copied from, but once its copied onto a smaller site, then MANY more people will feel more freely able to copy it, until its all over the internet, and the poor photographer who is struggling to pay his or her mortage ends up homeless as the didnt get the sales they expected from their work......

#20 AbleReach

AbleReach

    Peacekeeper Administrator

  • Site Administrators
  • 6467 posts

Posted 10 January 2006 - 05:30 AM

A small thumbnail image should fall under "fair use" as its not the original image, but it lets people know what you are on about.

I ran into this with a site I helped create. When we were about half done and had content that was actually appearing in search engines, someone published a linked-to-us thumbnail of one of our unique images. We had exclusive rights to the image. Our lawyer was on it in a heartbeat. Within a few days we had a policy document for use of our images, including fees and conditions. We decided to allow use of the image, but the way the image was used was dictated by our terms.

Assume nothing.

Elizabeth

#21 kensplace

kensplace

    Time Traveler Member

  • 1000 Post Club
  • 1497 posts

Posted 10 January 2006 - 03:46 PM

The day I meet a honest lawyer, is the day I will redefine my thoughts about lawyers, but at the end of the day, if google can cache billions of thumbnails, and billions of thumbnail images, and so can alexa, and many other very large firms, I would assume it falls under fair use. If its not, then plenty of people would have sued google by now.
Course, Im not a laywer, just would find it hard to imagine how a court could see it anything other than a fair use term.


I ran into this with a site I helped create.  When we were about half done and had content that was actually appearing in search engines, someone published a linked-to-us thumbnail of one of our unique images.  We had exclusive rights to the image.  Our lawyer was on it in a heartbeat.  Within a few days we had a policy document for use of our images, including fees and conditions.  We decided to allow use of the image, but the way the image was used was dictated by our terms.

Assume nothing.

Elizabeth

View Post


Edited by kensplace, 10 January 2006 - 03:47 PM.


#22 Nadir

Nadir

    Light Speed Member

  • Members
  • 976 posts

Posted 10 January 2006 - 03:49 PM

Don't worry about that ken, everything is backed up, for example they can say that if you don't want to get indexed, just modify your robots.txt file! I'm sure they have that kind of stuff in their policies..

#23 kensplace

kensplace

    Time Traveler Member

  • 1000 Post Club
  • 1497 posts

Posted 10 January 2006 - 03:59 PM

But copyright law does not state anywhere that I am aware of that you have to specifically put a sign up saying dont steal this (ie a robots.txt file)

Thats like me saying I will burgle every house in the neighbourhood if they dont put a postit note in the window asking me not to burgle them.
At the end of the day, its not the responsiblity of the householder to inform me they dont want to be burgled, its up to me to abide by the law!

Their policies dont change the law, and if the law says you cant do something, then you cant do it, no matter what google writes on their website. But people dont seem to be bothered about all the sites that thumbnail images, its something I am interested in, as I do it myself (but people submit there site to the directory, so they know what to expect, and agree to it in the first place, and procedures are in place for removal of a blog if someone else submits it who does not own it.)

Google has a thumbnail of most images that are on the internet, and even putting a robots.txt file up does not get instant removal of the images, it can take a long long time for it to happen. Surely if it really was not a case of fair use, the vultures, sorry lawyers would have been suing the pants of google a million times over by now.



Don't worry about that ken, everything is backed up, for example they can say that if you don't want to get indexed, just modify your robots.txt file! I'm sure they have that kind of stuff in their policies..

View Post



#24 Nadir

Nadir

    Light Speed Member

  • Members
  • 976 posts

Posted 10 January 2006 - 04:09 PM

I agree, but seriously, I think trying to fight Google for that matter is just impossible. It might look absurd to some that a search engine crawls your site without asking, but they got to be be a crazy law somewhere that allows that...

Edited by Nadir, 10 January 2006 - 04:09 PM.


#25 kensplace

kensplace

    Time Traveler Member

  • 1000 Post Club
  • 1497 posts

Posted 10 January 2006 - 04:16 PM

There certainly are plenty of crazy laws out there, in the UK its illegal to put a stamp on upside down, or so Im led to believe, there is also a weird law that says its ok to urinate in public, as long as you do it on a certain side of a vehicle (or something that insane....) there was a great tv show once where the presenters actually went out on the streets and did loads of idiotic things that you would think would have got them arrested - and it nearly did, but once they showed the proof of the law to the police, there was nothing they could do.


The law is plain weird.

But its clouded in confusion, which keeps lawyers in high paid jobs :(

The internet is one area the law is still in its infancy on, and its going to burn a lot of peoples fingers, but Im really suprised at a few things that have not happened, re lawyers and "ambulance chasing" on the internet, I can think of at least one way, if I was a lawyer, that I could become incredibly rich, incredibly quickly - and it would be for a good cause.. Just suprised it has not happened yet.... But it will, in time, im sure.



I agree, but seriously, I think trying to fight Google for that matter is just impossible. It might look absurd to some that a search engine crawls your site without asking, but they got to be be a crazy law somewhere that allows that...

View Post



#26 meriweather

meriweather

    Light Speed Member

  • Members
  • 583 posts

Posted 10 January 2006 - 09:31 PM

the poor photographer who is struggling to pay his or her mortage ends up homeless as the didnt get the sales they expected from their work......

Gee Ken, if you put it like that . . . :cry:

Great word picture - love it!

Doc



RSS Feed

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users