35 replies to this topic

[cre8pc]

It sometimes seems that the Internet is targeted to US citizens, which is really annoying to people from countries who use the Web just as much as US users do.

It's more than date formating and spellings of words. Someone mentioned the use of zip codes, and I realized suddenly that many forms REQUIRE a zip code or else they simply won't work!

Here's your chance to teach everyone what you need and would like to see improved. Please help us learn how to make the Internet a GLOBAL Internet.

Thanks!

Kim

[cre8pc]

The following are reprinted from another, related thread (which gave birth to this one!)

I hate websites that expect everyone to be from the US. Fine, it's alright if the site is clearly targeted to the US market, but on international sites it's unacceptable. Nothing ticks me off more than a page where you're asked to enter your state and zip code. 

1) We don't have states here in Finland. Fine, the country's divided into different provinces, but no one uses them in addresses anyway. 

2) We put the zip code BEFORE the city name. 

The result? Filling out those forms usually always produces an address that looks pretty weird. 

The most ridiculous example was a site that let me choose my country (Finland) from a list but then asked me to enter the name of my state. First I tried to leave it blank, but I got a response: "Please enter your state." I entered the name of my province, since it was the closest thing to a state we have here, but I got a response: "The state name you entered was too long." DUH!

Obviously a longer date format is a must. E.g. 9/11 is the 9th of November in the UK; perhaps also in Australia. Longer date formats are correct either way round (9th Nov 2002, Nov 9th 2002), but numeric dates only have one interpretation here. 

Spellings can't be dealt with and people must accept the spellings that they read. Optimisation (with an "s") is the most common spelling in the UK although both the "s" and "z" versions are correct. 

It would silly to create different pages for different spellings, so people have to accept the spelling that is on the page and not winge about it. Dates can and should be sorted though.

[Grumpus]

The major problem with coming up with a solution is a labor to return ratio. Every country has differences in how they do postal codes, phone numbers, currency, and various other things. One is likely to start with the U.S. formats for the simple fact that the U.S. makes up a vast majority of the buying power on the web.

Seems to me that there's a big calling for an out-of-the-box-plug-and-play solution and that someone could probably get pretty wealthy with a simple set of perl scripts (or whatever) that would allow visitors to select their country and modify the form accordingly.

It's not an easy nor profitable concept to deal with on a site by site basis, I don't think...

G.

[woodgifts]

When I am looking to buy something, it is important to me to know where the company is based, and vital to know what currency is being used. It never ceases to amaze me how difficult it is to determine this information on so many websites.

Dates are definitely a problem in numeric format, especially to someone from a culture where the month-day-year sequence is thoroughly illogical.

My biggest complaint is finding a site that will only ship to the USA, or has a service that is only available to USA residents. Of course, it usually takes several screens before this becomes apparent. Spam email advertising such sites really bugs me, especially since my email address ends .ns.ca !

In short, it is important to realise that the internet is truly global, and if you want to restrict your self to selling to a local audience, please do everyone a favor and make it very clear.

[currybet]

i can totally understand why you would want to validate every field in a form - but one thing that drives me nuts is if a form is split across two or three HTML pages, and you can't get past the first one without filling in all of the fields correctly.

i was using a form for a job application the other day, and i had to fill in a form that included such information as my second language and my degree of fluency in that language, plus rate my skills on micro$oft word/excel/outrage - before i even got to the information about how to submit my cv / resume details.

...and in fact add to my gripe any site that requires you to submit something like an order form in micro$oft word format.

[say]

There are a lot of cultures, and each one has different characteristics. Design for GLOBAL internet, from my point of view, requires a lot of work to understand the cultures, for instance, ethnographic studies.

Some commercial web sites are designed focalized on US citizens, and examples of problems are forms, zip codes, and so on. But I think that the problem is not only this: understand the cultures is the key.

International usability, Designing visual interfaces,.. are good points, but are not enough.

In conclusion, my answer would be create a universal data base (or communication, etc) based on experience, books,... to collect all of this information in order to try this goal. For instance, this forum is a good oportunity to create this "universal" usability knowledge data base, HCI patterns is another excellent solution, but we must work a lot.

Thank's,

Sergio.

[hape]

In my opinion there are two main approaches for international sites
1. You use one language and offer products that can be offered to almost all visitors ( if they understand the language used )
2. You use a multilanguage site with a different menu structure per language and products for the countries where the language is used
( no, not perfect but getting closer )

This can even be split up further by using a tool that maps IP addresses to countries and use this information to display country specific information in the proper manner

Integrating these features requires work and a customer willing to pay for it

A registration procedure ( as menioned above ) asking for the state is not a really complicated task
We always use a 3 step procedure - Select country ( which is preselected using IP mapping ) - if US is selected the next screen displays the states dropdown, if the country is Canada, the provinces dropdown is displayed etc and for other countries where states or provinces are not required it is a plain input field with no required input

International sites will always be a compromise ... but a bit of thinking should go into the development

Helmut

[person]

My suggestion for worldwide usability is to have everyone use a the same browser. That browser would be able to translate websites from any language to any language automatically. When a surfer goes to a foreign language site, the browser shows the content automatically in the preferred language.

[Cindy]

We are from the US and used to ship our products internationally. We had to stop for three, big reasons.

1. Customs and Duties-

Things would get hung up in customs, lost in customs, or our customers would be shocked by the duties that were tacked on along the way.

2. Shipping costs and insurance-

The cost for speedy, international delivery can be astronomical in some cases. It just didn't make any economic sense. Shipping insurance either wasn't available to some destinations, or extremely expensive. Of course, most shippers are not timely in settling claims.

3. Credit Card Fraud-

Most credit card processors will not authorize cards from outside the US. This means that the merchant has to take a big chance that the card is not stolen. The frausters know this and take full advantage. When tourists lose their wallets, online retailers lose their merchandise. Foreign credit card fraud was the biggest problem for us.

From our point of view, if we could sell everyone in the US alone, one of our products, then we would be fabulously wealthy and could retire at an early age. Why risk that?

[SEO Richard]

i was using a form for a job application the other day, and i had to fill in a form that included such information as my second language and my degree of fluency in that language, plus rate my skills on micro$oft word/excel/outrage - before i even got to the information about how to submit my cv / resume details.  

But who on earth FILLS in these forms? I for one - on principle - call myself a, from ALBANIA, MANAGING DIRECTOR, postal code SO1 OFF.

:evil:

In all seriousness, simply having these forms - free trial software say, or a trial subscription to a site - is dumb. How many people fill in information accurately when all they want is the free product, and they couldn't care less about the company?

Isn't that usability? That simply presenting forms like that is all 'wrong'?

:|

[peter_d]

Agreed SEO Richard. Welcome to the forums, BTW.

Webmasters frequently over-estimate the attention span of their visitors. The web is about immediacy, and unless visitors really, really want what you've got, they aren't going to waste time wrestling with your site, forms or otherwise.

I suspect Albanian General Managers show up a lot in web visitor patterns

[SEO Richard]

[bragadocchio]

I'm often a grandmother from beverly hills, (90210) born in 1902, when I'm forced to fill out a form to register to access something.

Welcome, Richard!


Cindy's points about the difficulties of conducting business across borders are excellent, and probably would be a good thread on their own. I'm tempted to move it the the business and marketing forum.

[winteromeo]

8) What about Singapore? Too small to even divide itself. :roll: We only have postal code, no ZIP no nothing... sigh...

[Respree]

I think that until the technology evolves to the point where software can be taught to understand cultural differences, we have to remain somewhat flexible in our thinking about the manner in which other cultures present information (e.g. If you visit a friend in Japan, you would be expected to remove your shoes before entering their home).

I envision a day where browsers understand characteristics typical to your geographic location and the cultural differences with other parts of the world. Based on the sites you visit, it will interpet "colors" into "colours" and 12 May 2004 into May 12, 2004, dollars into yen and so forth. Perhaps the technology may even originate from the website, serving different pages depending on their geographic location.

I think it is slowly evolving, but we're taking small, but eventual steps to get there.

For months I was irritated by the time stamp here at the forums (GMT). It always made me think it's the wrong day and and the time stamp was disorienting. Then one day, I discover through my profile (when in doubt, read the instructions ), I can customize the software to display my time zone -- problem solved. This would be a small example of such a step forward to accomodate a global audience.

Of course, the next logical step would be to detect my IP, then change it automatically...

[bwelford]

... just like your VCR will now.

[Cindy]

I think that until the technology evolves to the point where software can be taught to understand cultural differences, we have to remain somewhat flexible in our thinking about the manner in which other cultures present information (e.g. If you visit a friend in Japan, you would be expected to remove your shoes before entering their home). 

Oh, I'm sure the technology is there and ready to be used. Unfortunately, with all the US political hub-bub about "outsourcing," I doubt if you will see those changes anytime soon. Sending jobs, sales, etc. to countries outside the US is a big issue right now and this is an election year. Sad, but true.

[fisicx]

Trying to take on board all the good ideas here.

Hape suggested:

This can even be split up further by using a tool that maps IP addresses to countries and use this information to display country specific information in the proper manner

This works well unless (as I was) working in Germany but wanted to use ebay. Had a real problem using the UK site as ebay decided that I was German and kept sending me emails in German.

I did experiment with one one site with a redirection index page that used the browser language to load pages in different languages (and associated country specific forms) but it proved to be a right pain to maintain. So gave up and left it in English since most customers were engineers and could understand the language. Maybe not the most usable solution but at least didn't send customers to a page in a language they couldn't read.

[test-ok]

Please help us learn how to make the Internet a GLOBAL Internet.

I don't believe that will ever happen (not 100 percent global)...You do recall the Tower of Babble??
To many different languages and different meanings for words around the world..IMO Hell it's hard enough trying to keep a civil conversation between a Texan and someone from Oklahoma on the internet.
We can't do it with the Telephone what makes ya thing it can be done with the internet?

[gravelsack]

I totally appreciate the view that says 'stuff any country where I can't get a positive ROI"

However, puhleeeeease make this really clear on every conceivable landing page so I can hit the back button and go somewhere that actually wants my custom.