36 replies to this topic

[cre8pc]

It was bound to happen sooner or later...that I'd go too far with a rant. While I feel badly, it did get Danny's attention (thanks to Barry S.), and the result may be a place for folks with related skills to SEO to feel like they can also join Sphinn.

I did join Sphinn, if only to admit my place is the doghouse.

[Note: This thread was begun in the "Backroom" privately. We voted to move it out front because it was turning into a good discussion and we wanted to include you all as well. Kim.]

[joedolson]

Oh, I don't think you went too far. You may have gone off base a bit on the SES/SMX issues, but the wish for a usability category was perfectly justified.

Yes, the post was distinctly on the "ruffle some feathers" side --- but it also got noticed. And who knows how much more quickly usability may move into position than it would have otherwise?

Don't worry about it.

[bragadocchio]

I thought that it was a good rant.

And, if it has the effect of adding a usability section to the site, that's good.

I think if Danny would share more information about some of his plans for future SMX conferences, the question would never have been brought up.

Given the recent interview with Jakob Nielsen on search, I think there's a serious need for search to be added to usability conferences. He's so far off in his knowledge of search that I feel embarassed for him. Too many assumptions and opinions, and too little research to back any of them up.

[cre8pc]

think if Danny would share more information about some of his plans for future SMX conferences, the question would never have been brought up.

Exactly what my husband said

My regret is that I'm perceived as not supporting Danny Sullivan or his staff. That bothers me because it's just not true. He's one of the main reasons I remain loyal to the SEO industry. The usability industry has their thumb up their butt and could use a Danny or Chris Sherman.

[bwelford]

As I said in my comment to your rant, I agreed 100%. I think Danny's comments were a little over-the-top. However the final outcome is just fine.

[EGOL]

The actions of visitors now drive SERPs more than a big load of links. I hired a person in November and told her that she would be building links. She did that job for two days and since then she is working on content. I have not chased links since November and my rankings are still going up.


Usability is the big part of the New SEO.


Some thoughts on this topic from a two-year-old SEOmoz post.

Edited by EGOL, 16 July 2007 - 06:20 AM.

[bwelford]

Another thought that came to mind as it always does is the aspect of product-driven versus customer-centric (user-centric). That of course means acknowledging the power of the user versus the power of the website owner. Perhaps SEM gets the attention it does because website owners feel they have the power / control of their own destiny. Usability acknowledges that someone else out there has the power / control. If you allow users to determine how websites should be built, then you lose some control. I think that is a big factor with some web designers and some company owners. It's the same tendency that you may see with architects - the tyranny of the architect as some have described it.

Another problem is that I believe Usability is even more important than SEM so I don't know how it fits as a part of the SEM world. You've really got to acknowledge that they're all part of a bigger topic, which is holistic Internet Marketing or words to that effect. It's only because Google has largely set the rules that there is so much attention to Search.

Edited by cre8pc, 15 July 2007 - 10:10 PM.

[sanity]

I'm not up with Sphinn or anything right now but I thought your post was fine Kim. It raised some great points and I really didn't read it as critical of anyone. At least it's getting usability and user centered design some attention. What's the old saying, you have to break some eggs to make an omlette.

Edited by sanity, 15 July 2007 - 10:47 PM.

[cre8pc]

DazzlinDonna just posted a thoughtful post in her blog called I am no longer an SEO

She's not alone.

While I might be teased or get flack for "ranting" on the lack of usability focus as a skill needed by SEO's, there are some I've spoken to personally at conferences or gatherings, who have NEVER written or publically voiced how they feel, but who feel exactly as I do.

A few are angry that the customer side of marketing is treated as a secondary priority, with satisfying search engines with optimized web design being number one.

What do you think??? Is this all horse hockey or is the "New SEO" the next generation of skills that goes far beyond what we did 10 years back or and even last year?

Is getting Dugg the new SEO or is customer satisfaction?

[EGOL]

Google is smart enough to use "confirmational data" in their rankings.

You might have a highly optimized site and a lot of backlinks... that used to be enough to earn #1 rankings.

Now that Google is using site visitor actions in their algo, that information must confirm that your links are given on the basis of page quality. So, you might be optimized and have a lot of links - but if your site bounces visitors you will probably be demoted in the SERPs.

A million backlinks is not enough in the New SEO.

[bwelford]

I'm starting a movement to use the widely-known acronym, SEO, as the handle for what the best are doing in this area. It includes everything necessary to get websites to perform well. That goes from the strategic questions such as selecting the right niche and developing a USP right through to Usability, Captology and getting conversions.

The new definition is SEO = Selling Effectiveness Optimization.

I've Sphinned (? Sphunned) this, so I hope that will be enough to do the trick.

[Mano70]

Almost the same question was raised by one of the best usability experts in my country last year; Should SEOs have to be usability experts also in the future, or should usability experts also have to be SEOs?

My opinion then (as now) is that SEOs will have to look at usability in the future more than usability experts will have to look at SEO. At that time I didn't work with SEM/SEO full time, but in April I joined one of the largest (and oldest) SEM firm, and one of the reasons for taking the job was that the company also have experts and equipments for usability testing. SEO without usability in mind is only a half job done.

Edited by Mano70, 16 July 2007 - 11:08 AM.

[SEOigloo]

Hi Kim,
I thought your post was a good and important one.

Here's a funny thing about how I come to this issue. I always thought that making pages work right for people (Usability) and aiming for high rankings (SEO) was just what web design is about. The thing is, for several years, we had no idea that either of these pursuits had names. We just thought of it as building websites. The idea that you'd build a site that didn't function correctly or rank well just didn't enter the picture once we started building websites for money.

Labels can help us to quantify, but they can also be divisive. This is a tough thing. I'm happy to use the words SEO, Usability, Marketing if it means others will know what I'm talking about...but in the back of my mind, it remains 'building good websites'.

Miriam

Edited by SEOigloo, 16 July 2007 - 02:29 PM.

[iamlost]

I thought it was a fair rant (insufficient CAPITALISATION) with a great point.

I have long been bemused by the narrowness of 'optimisation' in the web community. One needs to optimise for (at least):
* people/browsers: accessibility, usability, and content quality.
* SEs/bots: allow/deny control measures and ranking considerations.
* ROI: number, variety, and effectiveness of revenue streams.

SEO started narrow and has since shrunk it's scope while simultaneously expanding it's boundaries in an attempt to co-opt SEM. The tail is attempting to wag the dog.

All 'titles' and job descriptions overlap especially in web development. The larger the organisation the more formal the boundaries and the more difficult the communication. As a one person operation, with occassional subcontractors, I am a Bartholomew Cubbins (of Dr. Seuss fame), a man of many hats. Most of us are.

Which explains everything. One would hate to commit a fashion faux pas by wearing the wrong style or colour of hat to an event. The hat afterall defines who we really are.

[swainzy]

eCopt on Donna's site mentioned the title "Internet Strategist". I like that one, do you?

[A.N.Onym]

There have been plenty of times, when SEOs have been thinking that some other angle should be considered SEO or not. I recall the same talk about copywriting, marketing, hand-coding, link baiting and now it is about usability.

A common term that might unite the whole things a SEO is responsible with is Internet marketer. Naturally, everyone has different backgrounds, though.

[DianeV]

It goes without saying that usability is needed in the development of a website. So are other disciplines. But I remember when we were trying to devise a name that would encompass web design and other necessary disciplines; the name arrived at was "holistic web design". I've never used it because it doesn't communicate anything to the general public.

I think there's always a problem when you try to include one discipline within the definition of another -- particularly when the general public doesn't know what most of these terms mean. If you try to embed usability in the definition of SEO, does that somehow mean that you no longer have to mention usability(!). Which discipline gets slighted as "just a part of" the other (when it really isn't)? And what's to differentiate you from the next person who does just SEO?

To illustrate, to me, SEO should be included in the design and building of a website (as should usability and what is now being called "persuasive design" — we seem to be a new-name-happy bunch). Does that then mean that we should not mention SEO or these other disciplines at all and just call it web design? Heck no — because what would differentiate that service from someone who only does web design?

In short: what's wrong with saying you do usability AND SEO?

[AbleReach]

Just saw this!

If I were creating a presenter category for usability I'd call it something like "user behavior," because it is self explanatory and sounds more urgent than "Other Online Marketing." User centered design, persuasive design/marketing and even something about communication styles and personas would fit into a user behavior group.

The idea of putting search before usability and content has always seemed nuts to me. I think it's nuts to not have a usability-like category in a search marketing seminar. Definitely a worthy rant topic. Do more! Flaunting opinions once in a while is a good thing, and pushing ideas around afterwards can be instructive and healthy.

[eKstreme]

What ever happened to good old "Webmaster"?

[Black_Knight]

Is Usability Part Of The New Seo?

No.

It is part of old-school marketing. We call it making a smooth presentation.

Or if you learned marketing fromone of the hardnosed veterans of face-to-face selling, it was called "Don't p*** the customer off"