29 replies to this topic

[A.N.Onym]

Hi, folks.

My fellow SEO has got into a predicament of needing to get 20 PR6 links in one month in the software industry for $475 (spent on links, not for the job).

You'd probably fire this kind of client right away, but good jobs are rare in our small town. My countryman SEO was promised to have full control on the website, if he succeeds. The person knows that he needs to create great, link worthy content, but with current limitations, this isn't possible (will be, if he succeeds). And that's as good as it gets here with the bosses.

While there wasn't a clear indication of whether the page or the site has to have PR6, we'd rather stick to the safe side and get links from PR6+ pages. The person thinks we can get some lower quality (up to nofollowed links from PR6 homepage sites), but we'd rather have some shape of a backup.

We have thought about:
- paid directories (consulted the list already)
- linkbait (no guarantee to get 20 PR6+ links, tho)
- link brokers (too expensive)
- seeking high PR pages and commenting there (no junk comments, tho)

While there will be links to be had from the above, we'd rather be safe and get PR6 page links somehow.

What would you do to get 20 PR6 links in one month?

Please share your ideas and help a fellow SEO.

Thanks.

Edited by A.N.Onym, 06 August 2007 - 08:20 AM.

[JohnMu]

How long do the links have to exist? .. or in other words, is this meant to just achieve a goal of "20 PR6 links" or should it actually do the site some good?

That alone doesn't help much, but clairifying that question can help determine what might be possible. For instance, if you only have to get 20 PR6 links, you might be able to buy them, say for a week. If you're lucky, you could find a site with 20+ PR6 pages and just get the links from that site alone. I assume your $475 should be enough for that (not sure though). Heck, you could go to the Wikipedia and get them there for free (if all you want are those 20 links for a short time).

The other alternative might be to educate the client to understand that "20 PR6 links" doesn't mean much at all and that his time and money is better spent on doing real work. If you can convince them of that, you will likely gain more than just achieving the goal of "20 PR6 links" which might not change anything at all for his site.

Knowing you, I bet you've already thought of that, but I just wanted to mention it anyway

John

[Black_Knight]

Well, I'd call in favours.

Yet another darned good reason to be a generous soul in this industry - it can earn you credit you might just need one day.

[EGOL]

No linkable content, less than $500, 20xPR6 links, done in a month.

If you can pull this off on a regular basis you can probably walk on water... and my bet is that these links will be very temporary.

If you can pull this off on a regular basis you need to kick the clients and work for yourself.

This is a tough job for a person who has content... and still would cost more than $500 because you need to find where those links will come from and get contacting people.

I'd be honest with the client regarding their expectations. If you fill this job then you set yourself up as a magician who will perform at command.

If somebody told me that they wanted 20 PR6 links - and had great content already in place. I would still need a lot more than $500.

Edited by EGOL, 06 August 2007 - 12:37 PM.

[projectphp]

I'd ask why they need them. Never do the impossible, always negotiate a safer deal. Beside which, what if he got 19? That is still failure.

So few pages are PR 6. Some page on a site might be, but the whole site? Doubtful.

My only idea is to do something EXTREME. Sell your virginity, sell a house for a $1, out a celebrity with photos, that sort of thing. That is the ONLY way to get high PR links fast, and really, it is cheating because they would quickly move to low PR pages in about 3 days.

The only other solution is Kirk inpired: http://en.wikipedia..../Kobayashi_Maru find a way to "cheat". No one really wants that!

[AbleReach]

Does the client know the value of what they're asking?

I'd be wary of anything that smells like jumping through hoops on a dare. Is this project worth bringing in favors?

If you have any doubts, take a look at the prospective client's priorities and make them a counter offer.

Start off with something like "20 pr 6 links would normally cost $X and take X long."

What are their priorities?

[A.N.Onym]

Folks, thanks for responding to the challenge.

John, of course, they'd rather be permanent, than for one month. The more time they'll buy the trapped SEO before he launches a successful linkbait, the better. Though being picky in this situation is no good, having a link for one week sounds dangerous (what if the boss decides to check in 8 days after the deadline?)

The links have to be from different sites. Sorry not to have mentioned this.

Explaining the stuff to the boss seems to be out of the question. The boss, a leader of the company for years, has a 'vision'. If something doesn't fit in there, he doesn't see it. I suspect thorough explanation of the nuances of link building and weighing should work, but I personally can't do that. The person most likely tried to explain the things, though.

And yes, that was one of the first ideas that came to my mind, too

Thank you, John, for sharing the ideas.


Ammon, that's a good idea. Thank you.


EGOL, when I first heard of it, I thought the boss ate something and that it was impossible. With diligent work, it may be, though.

As you understand, even if you have to start doing websites, you have to work 1-3 years on them before you can make a living w/o a permanent job. I'll give your idea to the fellow, but not this month.

I doubt he'll be able to perform such tricks for a while, though. Not to mention linkbaiting is more efficient, than link hunting (though you may argue with me about this).

Thanks, EGOL.


Those are solid ideas, Michael.

However, I think the time for negotiation has been missed, not to mention it might be hard to convince the boss, a SEO newbie, that there are better ways to build links. Not to mention, the SEO was already proposing to invest in creating content, linkbait and stuff. As a result, he got this task instead.

We need either PR6 pages or sites with PR6 homepages. The latter is possible, but the former looks more secure, in case it turns out the boss wanted links from PR6 homepages specifically, not just sites with such front pages (which, we suspect, he did).

I too doubt there are sites with all pages with PR6 or higher, but we don't need such websites for this stunt.

We thought of linkbait, though didn't think about selling virginity. Having links from high PR homepages or such sites at least for a month would work. We are currently thinking about it.

Truth be hold, we are considering a couple of sideways, using the boss's lack of SEO knowledge, but they'll only allow the fellow SEO to buy some time to show results with linkbait. So the more permanent and high PR links he gets now, the safer he'll be.

Thanks for the ideas, everyone. It's good to know we are on the right track and we'll add your ideas to the list.

Edited by A.N.Onym, 06 August 2007 - 08:08 PM.

[AbleReach]

The boss, a leader of the company for years, has a 'vision'.

In that case, maybe he can write a few articles that would warrant publication on other people's sites, relevant sites with good PR. A favor plus content to offer might help his cause.

Edited by AbleReach, 06 August 2007 - 08:19 PM.

[A.N.Onym]

That's a good idea, though I doubt this particular boss will want to write articles. The vision pertains more to how things need to be done, not necessarily involving himself in the process.

[AbleReach]

The vision pertains more to how things need to be done, not necessarily involving himself in the process.

Run

[A.N.Onym]

Nowhere to run, sadly.

We'll discuss this issue in a month (28 days), I guess.

[markov]

Writing unique articles and publishing them on important article directories could generate a good PR back links.

[ChuckTM]

Keep in mind there are only 4 or so directories worth the time.
Find on-topic websites or newsletters and call them for permission,
then send them really good articles. You can find 25 that'll say yes.
And a really good article will stay on page one for a couple months.

[rustybrick]

I would probably go the social media route with a couple Digg attempts. If not, calling in favors is doable but not sure if it is worth the $475 to use favors.

[Respree]

Hi Yuri:

Its been about 30 days since your original post. I'm curious as to what types of techniques your friend finally decided in the end and how many of the 20 links he actually got.

An update would be great and would help us to learn what could work well, and maybe not so well, in a relatively short time.

If you gave him a link from your (personal) site, of course, that doesn't count. :-)

Edited by Respree, 05 September 2007 - 08:41 PM.

[A.N.Onym]

Publishing articles doesn't count, because the client is interested in links from PR6 pages. Even if the articles get their PR shown in 3 months, it won't be PR6, more like PR3-5, if lucky.

Barry, social marketing was the first idea I have offered and it was dismissed as risky and time consuming. Numerously. Given that the person isn't well versed in creating and promoting linkbait, this indeed could be a problem (though with my help it might work).


Garrick, the update would indeed be nice.

The client wasn't paying the money to start the work, so the deadline has shifted to an undeertermined date (the countdown will start once the money is paid, I believe)

We have heard plenty of suggestions, including:
- buying links
- exchanging links
- writing articles
- Wikipedia
- linkbait
- offering our services (or other favors) in exchange for a link
- commenting on high PR posts
- directory submission

Nearly all of the options don't suit the goal, because they either:
- don't offer links from PR6 pages
- would take too much time (getting 20 links is only one task of the SEO)
- the links would partly be temporary, such as in the linkbait case (homepage links will go, links from non-PR pages would stay) or Wikipedia, if deemed spammy (can't get 20 links from a Wiki in a month w/o being spammy, IMHO)

As you can guess, one of the preferrable ways would be to find old, popular posts and comment on them and I think that'd be the route the SEO will go.

Another would be to offer free stuff, such as a free software license, but I am not sure how it'll go (will see after the job).


Btw, if I had a site related to software, it'd count, because using your connections in the industry you are in counts

Note: Please have in mind that the task is pretty limited in time and efforts, as well has a pretty specific 'link from a PR6 page' requirement. If the task was only to get links from relevant sites, such as any SEO would go for, creating link worthy content would be the best option.


I'd like to thank everyone, who contributed to this thread, because it has shown that the task is not impossible, but pretty doable. Thanks! :hugsallround:

Edited by A.N.Onym, 05 September 2007 - 09:10 PM.

[Doug Heil]

"I'd like to thank everyone, who contributed to this thread, because it has shown that the task is not impossible, but pretty doable."

What? Doable how? I guess my question would be:

Why would you or ANYone try to do this? Why do you and your client think that links are the be all end all? Why hasn't anyone in this thread tried to 'teach" this person that pagerank you see in the little green bar means nothing and that getting these types of links does the client no good anyhoo?

Why does this industry put up with this kind of crap? Why not teach this client? Why not give this client the resources necessary to learn this stuff? Why would anyone even attempt such a silly thing to begin with?

I'm not getting it guys/gals. The types of replies I see in this thread are just truly bad stuff.

Barry; get them from social media sites?? Are you kidding me? You have to be yanking my chain Barry. You wrote that yesterday. Frankly; I'm shocked.

How about this? Tell your client to get lost or go and get into his own link scheme all by himself. Come back later when his site has been penalized.

[bwelford]

Good to see you here, Doug. I agree that this emphasis on the Toolbar Pagerank thermometer is misplaced and I've blogged about my frustration with clients who approach me on that. I would certainly prefer that Google bury the toy but that isn't going to happen. It's one of their strongest marketing tools.

I was struck by a post that Bob Massa wrote recently entitled The Fallacy of SEO and How to Make Money From It. His point was that if clients think that's what they want then don't try to educate them. Certainly the whole Pagerank thingy has certainly got them thinking. So instead work with them and deliver what they think they need plus what is better for them. That seems an excellent approach.

[A.N.Onym]

Doug, the answer to your questions is in the first post:

You'd probably fire this kind of client right away, but good jobs are rare in our small town. My countryman SEO was promised to have full control on the website, if he succeeds. The person knows that he needs to create great, link worthy content, but with current limitations, this isn't possible (will be, if he succeeds). And that's as good as it gets here with the bosses.

As I have also probably said, teaching the boss, in this case, is useless, not only because he doesn't listen, but because there aren't many clients to choose from.

I don't think Barry (Schwartz) meant getting links from social sites, rather than from the visitors that get to the site from them. That's a more suitable and worthwhile approach, but it's not being considered for this situation.

Barry (Welford), this kind of approach, do first, teach second, is what my fellow SEO preaches at the moment. Frankly, there's not much left to do, because if you try to educate first, the clients don't get it and you don't get a job. Plain and simple.

And that's what the SEO in question is going to do in this case: show that the PR links don't help the site and are a waste of time/money and offer a better variant, such as worthy content.

By the way. The task was received as a response to a suggestion to create link-worthy content. So, Doug:
- I shouldn't accuse my fellow SEO or any thread contributor of any lack of sanity
- social media has its place in our hearts, but for the right moments in the projects

[Doug Heil]

You are missing the point.

I would be giving back the money if it were me. I would be telling that person that he either reads and learns a few things, or he does the link thang himself. I know you stated that projects were hard to come by, but why bother with such a client?

Barry; so you say that teaching a client is not an option? That's nutty. Sorry. I gave up reading stuff from that guy along time ago. "Give them what they want". ..... that's the biggest prob this industry has as it is. Bow down to everyone and forget about the teaching.

To the original poster in the thread; .. if this client is the only client you can get, you probably need to make sure you have other income coming in. I don't understand the need to take money for something that is "impossible". No; it's not doable at all and never has been doable unless you wanted to risk a penalty. Google has been cracking down on paid links for quite awhile now. Our industry just seemed to notice it recently though. It begs the question about "where has everyone been" the past year?

Be a good person and give the 500 bucks back. It seems you need to educate yourself as well. Read as much as you can and then apply what you read.