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Operate a single site with multiple domain names


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#1 Guest_PhilC_*

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 12:49 PM

<This topic was brought here from this thread. To see how is came about, please read the other thread>

But it made me think of something. I imagined you had the various top-level domains for highrankings and maybe another set for high-rankings, and that they all pointed (auto-redirected) to highrankings.com. I remember people suggesting the Google may find new domains to spider from whois, and I wondered what they might make of a bunch of domains, like those I mentioned above, all pointing to one domain - not a network, but it might trigger their auto 'iffy' alarm. If they were to auto-penalize such a setup, they would get it terribly wrong. The idea that the extra domains should have used the robots.txt file wouldn't be any excuse at all. I guess it couldn't really happen, but it did make me wonder.

Phil.

#2 Advisor

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 12:58 PM

If you set them up as mine are set up...that is, I have only one site, and any changes I upload would show up across all of the domains, because like I said, it's justone site...then there should never be a problem with the search engines.

There are hundreds of thousands of sites that have multiple domain names for various reasons, and the search engines have to be able to figure it all out. I always recommend doing it the way I do, through parked domains. I think that's your best bet for not getting caught in any inadvertant filters.

You can't put up a robots.txt to exclude any spiders through my method (as far as I know) because you either exlude your one site, or you don't. The key is that you only have one site -- multiple domain names that will all get your there -- but one site.

If you take do a backlink check on Google for webwhiz.net it will say here are the links for highrankings.com. Google recognizes that they are one and the same.

Jill

#3 Guest_PhilC_*

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 01:03 PM

Do you mean that, if I were to go to the webwhiz site, I would see the up to date content of your highrankings site? If so, how have you set it up like that?

If that's right, this could really do with being a thread on its own so that we can learn how to set up such groups of domains.

Phil.

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 01:08 PM

Yes, that's what I mean. It's just a matter of doing it at the server level. When you register a domain, you can have it "parked" anywhere you want. I tell them to park it at the IP address of my highrankings.com site. (I believe you need to have your own unique IP address to do this.)

You can park a domain to any IP address you want. You know how you sometimes see domains that go to a page at Register.com saying that a website is coming soon? That's the default that Register.com sets you up at when you register a domain. However, you can go into the tools there and change the pointing to your own IP.

Or, if you have a server that hosts your domain, you can ask them to park your additional domain names to the same IP. They usually only charge a small set up fee for this and not monthly hosting, because they're not actually hosting anything additional.

Let's make it clear that this method has nothing to do with SEO, and won't help nor hurt you in the least with your SEO endeavors. You should never try to get one of your additional domain names into a directory if you already have one name in. This is the kind of thing that could get you into trouble somewhere down the line, and something the directories are constantly on the lookout for (although they're not very good at spotting it all the time).

Feel free to move this to it's own thread if you want to Phil.

Jill

#5 Guest_PhilC_*

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 02:31 PM

That's interesting, Jill.

Let's make it clear that this method has nothing to do with SEO, and won't help nor hurt you in the least with your SEO endeavors. You should never try to get one of your additional domain names into a directory if you already have one name in. This is the kind of thing that could get you into trouble somewhere down the line, and something the directories are constantly on the lookout for (although they're not very good at spotting it all the time).

No, I wasn't thinking of it in terms of SEO; just how to use those extra domain names without an actual redirect.

I do think the method can gain additional rankings for the ghost domains, although they would only be any good if they aquired some IBLs (I won't call them "shadow" domains because that has a different meaning). Also, the rankings they might get would be just the like the ones that the main domain has.

I'm not sure that the ghosts can't hurt you, though. If Google gathers domain urls from other means, such as whois or the toolbar, then ghosts that display actual content, as yours do, could fall foul of an automatic flag *if* the inter-domain linking alarms are automatic. To Google, they are different domains, and their pages are pages from different domains, even though they are physically on one site. Perhaps, Google eventually gets to realise that they are the same domain (similar to domains with and without the www.) but I wouldn't be certain of being completely safe by doing it, especially since the pages on the different domains are indentical.

Phil.

#6 JimZim

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 03:22 PM

To Google, they are different domains, and their pages are pages from different domains, even though they are physically on one site. Perhaps, Google eventually gets to realise that they are the same domain (similar to domains with and without the www.) but I wouldn't be certain of being completely safe by doing it, especially since the pages on the different domains are indentical.


I have heard "them" (those who are not us!) say that the SE's do some sort of tracking via your IP numbers and that if you have domain names within a range, that have similar (exact in this case?) content, that those alarms go off (how did you call it Phil, "iffy" alarms ;))

Anyway, is this practice true or just more SEO urban legends?

Thanks.

#7 Guest_PhilC_*

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 03:55 PM

I haven't heard that but take a look at http://www.holidays.org.uk/

Check the PR and then remove the "www." bit, get that url and check its PR.

It's been like that for years (except that the PR for www. version went up) and Google hasn't yet figured it out. In some respect Google treats them as being the same but in others it still sees them as being different.

Phil.

#8 JimZim

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 04:10 PM

I haven't heard that but take a look at http://www.holidays.org.uk/

Check the PR and then remove the "www." bit, get that url and check its PR.

Phil.


But that's a little different though, isn't it? I mean if you do a ping on website you know only has 1 IP address (and has the www.domainname.com and the domainname.com pointed to that IP number) then you will only get that same IP number, whether you "ping www.domainname.com" or "ping domainname.com".

I am referring to the concept of getting a block of IP numbers from your favorite web host, and putting up your content across a number of those IP numbers (with domain names that would be submitted to SE's) and then attempting to get more than your fair share (what is that anyways?) of the listings on the SERP.

Again, just thoughts on my part.

Thanks.

#9 Guest_PhilC_*

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 05:32 PM

I was just using it as an example that in some ways, Google are still unable to recognise those 2 urls as being the same site even though they are. It was little different to what you were talking about.

Phil.

#10 polarmate

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 07:20 PM

No, I wasn't thinking of it in terms of SEO; just how to use those extra domain names without an actual redirect.

According to this: http://www.planetdom...ard/wizard1.jsp any sort of parking of domains is a redirect. There are two types of 'parking':
- where the URL entered is not retained and the destination URL is displayed and is cheaper
- where the URL entered is retained despite the redirect to the destination URL

Also this looks like something that your registrar can do for you and you don't need your web host to set it up.

For the www thing you need your web host to set up both www and without to display the web site configured for that domain name on their server. The site for the registrar I use 1cheapdomains.com does not work without the www:
http://1cheapdomains.com results in a DNS error
http://www.1cheapdomains.com does not

Weird. I have no idea why they have set it up like this. I can only imagine that they do lose sales because of it.

#11 JimZim

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 07:35 PM

For the www thing you need your web host to set up both www and without to display the web site configured for that domain name on their server.


Actually, if you go with a registrar like register.com for your services, you have the ability to take a lot of that control back without having to add communication cycles to your web host.

You can park a domain to any IP address you want. You know how you sometimes see domains that go to a page at Register.com saying that a website is coming soon? That's the default that Register.com sets you up at when you register a domain. However, you can go into the tools there and change the pointing to your own IP.


Keep in mind that in order to take advantage of these extra services from register.com (not sure how other registrars offering these services might affect this) you have to make sure to choose register.com as your DNS provider. If not, you have a very limited number of options that you have control over with your domain.

Hope this contributes. Thanks.

#12 Guest_PhilC_*

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 07:57 PM

Yup. They all redirect Polarmate, but it's not the same as the auto-redirecting that we talk about with regard to SEO. It's a question of whether or not SEs view multiple domains redirecting to a main domain as iffy. They won't if the possible penalty is done by hand, but if Google has something automatic set up, who knows?

Phil.

#13 polarmate

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 08:38 PM

Could you explain what auto-redirecting is within the context of SEO? This is the first time I heard it mentioned.

#14 JimZim

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 09:22 PM

Could you explain what auto-redirecting is within the context of SEO? This is the first time I heard it mentioned.


From a very high level, it would deal with moving (redirecting) a visitor that might click on a resulting link on a SERP, to another off topic page that the site owner would rather have traffic sent to. Obviously, the challenge here is that if the visitor does a search for, say, travel destinations, and when they click on a resulting link on the SERP they are taken to some XXX rated site, they are not going to be too happy.

And if you think about it, why would you go through all the trouble of getting a page to rank well, and then send the visitor somewhere else. My guess is that there is less and less of this type of activity going on now days, but that asn't always the case.

I am sure that Phil will have some more in depth info, just thought I'd weigh in.

Thanks.

#15 glyn

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Posted 10 December 2002 - 09:23 AM

Damn, I wish this thread had been brought to my attention yesterday, I was in MSN pulling out queries of spam the likes of which you've never seen. The "bait & switch" method is still very much being used by companies on both the outer limits of spam, and legitimate portals that create 10000s pages and then stuff the title tag with the relevant generic tags. Like mailmerging a brand name database with the fields products, services and offers and putting it in the title tag.

It really annoys me this stuff. More so because there are webmasters that care alot about their keyword area and they are the ones that should be in position 1. Because when you find their pages you find information, not some bloody fruitmachine where no screen area does not results in some affiliate click through.

Still the world is never fair.

#16 JimZim

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Posted 10 December 2002 - 02:39 PM

It really annoys me this stuff. More so because there are webmasters that care alot about their keyword area and they are the ones that should be in position 1. Because when you find their pages you find information, not some bloody fruitmachine where no screen area does not results in some affiliate click through.

Still the world is never fair.


Uh, huh. I hear ya! I have a side interest in the fight game, www.TheFightChannel.com, and while I have not specifically targeted the VERY generic and competitive keyword "Boxing", I check on it from time to time. Yesterday I notice this in Google: http://www.google.co...=UTF-8&q=boxing. Look at who is number one there.

I guess that "project" made the search engines happy, eh Glyn?

#17 Adrian

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 07:53 AM

I don't really want to get into accusing sites of spam or anything (whether blatent or not) but James' example above shows how manipulatable (is that even a proper word? :() Google's PageRank algo section is.

Type "link:66.150.213.116/" in the Google box (the IP addy is that of the number one slot in James' search) and see how many results it comes up with.

Results 1 - 10 of about 3,060


3000 links is bound to bump the site up a bit. I'm fairly sure theres some redirecting going on as well, you end up in a sub directory, so the original page could be 'optimised' for all sorts of things.

Anyway, thats sliding off topic but just wanted to offer a bit of a 'why' that site came up top.

#18 JimZim

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 08:58 AM

Type "link:66.150.213.116/" in the Google box (the IP addy is that of the number one slot in James' search) and see how many results it comes up with.

Is it possible to do a search that tells you how many other spots that IP / page might be ranking in the SE? If so, wouldn't that be a straight indication that some unscrupulous means were at work (provided they were using that same page for top rankings?

If so, I have to say I wouldn't have a problem reporting them, even though I am not personally trying to target that particular keyword. If they are doing it a lot, they are definitely infringing on the rights of the Target Search Marketing Companies!

#19 Guest_Mel_*

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Posted 02 February 2003 - 02:06 AM

I believe these are not really redirects as such, but are done at the webhosts nameserver level.

You advise your registrar that the nameservers for thisdomain.com are at NS1.myhost.com and NS2.myhost.com and then ask your webhost to add entries to those nameservers that point those names to a single IP address.



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