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~~ Lets Move Away From .com!?


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#1 saschaeh

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 09:18 AM

What do you guys think about not using .com. I have posted twice already about the .com frustration. I.E.: not having any decent .coms available and they are mostly not doing anything. Well today i thought of a very cool concept and the name that was just right. OBV it was not available and it is just sitting doing nothing. (It is strange funky name none industry generic but two English words stuck together...)


So my question is this: Why dont we just use others. Like .info .biz .fun .whatever? And make it easy to remember for site users by really branding yourself with that extension. So the logo will incorporate it and in your copy you always drive it home: "MYSITE.BoycottTheDOTCom"?

:ph34r:

You think it could work?

On another theoretical note - ultimately if enough of us move away from .com it will loss value and it will just come down to good branding and good websites. will it ever happen? Could the .com neighborhood go to waste and become as good as the rest?

Edited by saschaeh, 05 October 2007 - 09:20 AM.


#2 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 09:27 AM

Well... I thought thats what .Net and .Info were for... were they not the replacements for .coms ???

the web name should always be well established/branded/pushed... made integral to headed paper, compliment slips etc... even if it isn't actually a functional part of the business.


I'm not sure boycotting will solve the issue - so long as there is even a moderate amount of support for DNFarming or Prospecting, the problem will not go away.
:)

#3 saschaeh

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 09:39 AM

1: well in this world im thinking dns farming would be obsolete becasue there would just be to many variations and those variations could evolve over time, adapt is actually a better word. It might happen over many generation that .com will become worthless and will see a revival much later. (like real property often does)

2: At the moment we only really have one maybe 2 head honcho (.com .net). If we had like 10 and everyone knew you would be one of 10 then dns farming would go down the drain to the power of 10. At the moment most of the public dont really consider anything outside of .com and there local extensions.

3: DNS farmers in this world of myn have to start waging and competing against each other. Its the whole monopoly issue. .com has a monopoly and the sooner we move away from that the better.

Another point is this:

is it harder to recall:

> Cre8aSiteForums.com or

> CreateSites.new

hmmm

Edited by saschaeh, 05 October 2007 - 09:40 AM.


#4 DCrx

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 10:11 AM

There is only one way I've seen which moves away from .com well.

There is a site, perhaps you've heard of called del.icio.us

#5 Respree

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 10:45 AM

How do you pronounce that anyway?

Is it ... del dot eeceo dot you es?

#6 JohnMu

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 11:03 AM

It looks like .me is coming -- how about that?

If you just need a cheap domain name, .cn names are going for 15 cents (first year) at the moment.

John

#7 saschaeh

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 11:10 AM

.me sounds like its got legs...

#8 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 11:11 AM

? Are you being funny?

just in case you are serious...
ignore the "dots"... = delicious (as in tasty).

incase you are being funny....
:)

#9 EGOL

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 11:11 AM

I was at my registrar this morning and found that they were registering domains like...

www.widgets.us.com

My reaction was... phooey... another variant of these things to confuse the unsavvy web surfer.

But I registered a few good ones. :-)

#10 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 11:15 AM

1) I would have thought that .me would have caused some issues for certain people with a condition... "me".

2) I wouldn't have thought it good for "business" as in companies/corporate etc... but for personal/bloggs etc... fantastic (what about non-english language people/sites?).

3) ."country".com havebeen around for a while (at least in the UK).

4) Tell me you didn't just go "farming" again :)

#11 JohnMu

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 11:21 AM

I want "to.me" :)

http://please.link.to.me/

hehehehe

John

#12 saschaeh

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 11:22 AM

us.com still country specific we need universal ones.

confuse the unsavvy


isnt it going to confuse everyone anyway if we start making up obscure domain names?

Edited by saschaeh, 05 October 2007 - 11:25 AM.


#13 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 11:28 AM

ROFLMAO @ JohnMu


I think that people really do down on the public (understandably in most cases)... yet are they really that stupid that they cannot read and remember .xxx and .xx.xx (by the way - does anyone else think that ".xx", ".xx.xx" and ".xxx" should be for porn?).

The extension shouldn't make that much difference.

#14 Respree

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 12:19 PM

? Are you being funny?

just in case you are serious...
ignore the "dots"... = delicious (as in tasty).

in case you are being funny....


Actually, both. :-p

Of course, one can easily see how it should be pronounced. They've done a fine job marketing their website, so anybody that's been around for a while recognizes it.

I'll expand upon my serious point (which I perhaps made too subtly). Let's say it was a brand new website with zero invested (thus far) in marketing or SEO. Nobody knows who you are. How do you tell people (through offline networking, word of mouth, or over the telephone) how to get to the site without spelling all of the letters and letting them know where the dots go, without completely confusing people? I can just hear people saying, "Well I tried to get to your site, but it wouldn't come. Did I put the dot in the wrong place?"

Of course, del.icio.us is an exception, but I wonder how many others have tried to use the same clever technique, only to experience what I described above...

Just some food for thought.

Edited by Respree, 05 October 2007 - 12:20 PM.


#15 JohnMu

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 12:38 PM

.me is the new one for Montenegro, it's a ccTLD. However, it'll likely end up like ".tv" ...

I don't think we need more "vanity" TLDs (eg. .xxx), it wouldn't really change things. Imagine if we suddenly had .xxx -- it would just force all the existing adult sites to buy the other domain in addition to their existing .com one. Then what? Twice as many adult domains...

John

PS I'll take "for.me", "with.me", "without.me" and "and.me" while I'm at it. Too bad they'll all be gone by the time I come (it'll be interesting anyway). ".rs" is coming too - what could that be used for?

#16 bobbb

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 12:43 PM

... yet are they really that stupid that they cannot read and remember .xxx and .xx.xx

No but you are thinking like a computer guy or someone who is computer savvy.

Why should they remember or care? The regular mortals just want to hit the net and go to CNN or whatever. Dot com or dot smom who cares? And when they use a search engine like Google they really do not know the dot this and dot that of where they are going. It's just the title and maybe the snippet and a click. The public has been conditioned to recognise that WWW and COM mean the Internet and that's good enough. Let the nerds and geeks worry about all that mumbo jumbo underneath.

We do it on other levels. Does everyone understand the DNS system or how TCP/IP works. No and who cares (depending on what you do). Do you know the ins and outs of your router or modem? Same answer: No and who cares (depending on what you do).

What do you know about your car? Turn the key and it starts. Press this pedal and it goes. Open the hood (or bonnet)? AHHH.

does anyone else think that ".xx", ".xx.xx" and ".xxx" should be for porn

Yes

Edited by bobbb, 05 October 2007 - 01:32 PM.


#17 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 01:24 PM

...Respree...
Taht would be a ice statistic too knw... the success/failure rate of ".com's" who went for the unusual name...


...JohnMu...
Didn't realise it was for a place... I actually thought it was "me" as in the statement of myself.
(Wonders how many others don't realise.)


...bobbb...

No but you are thinking like a computer guy or someone who is computer savvy.


I think we are lookig from two different sides.
I'm refering to when you are dealing with people directly/indirectly... talking, post, headers etc.
Not the unknown element that encounter your site through Google etc... in which case they may not pay attention to the DN - then again, it's not a major concern as they are already there!

(Oh... and to make it clear, I happen to think most people are ignorant until they prove otehrwise.... means I'm seldomly suprised :))

Edited by Autocrat, 05 October 2007 - 01:30 PM.


#18 Jem

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 04:31 AM

How do you tell people (through offline networking, word of mouth, or over the telephone) how to get to the site without spelling all of the letters and letting them know where the dots go, without completely confusing people?

Just tell them to go to delicious.com, it redirects :)

#19 A.N.Onym

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 07:28 AM

Ignoring .com won't remove the default status is has. How many people of the millions can you make forget about it?

I've seen companies use .net with success, though I bet they lose a fair share (10-20%) of branding searches/direct navigation to .coms.

#20 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 08:21 AM

The simply solution is to emphasise the alternate extension...
So either make it
www.mysite.NET
www . mysite . net

OR

if the business type and branding permits, make it part of the name...
www.del.icio.us
www.news.and.info
www.buyacheaper.tv


The only reason that people automatically go for the .com is, as with many of these things, simple ignorance - they don't realise there are 4+ standard types avaialbe (.org .net . info . com), as well as several alternates (.co.uk, .uk.com etc.).

So make sure you hit them round the head with it - people tendto pay attentio when something is pushed right into their face (sometimes any way :) )

#21 A.N.Onym

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 08:47 AM

That's a good idea for the sites that already have alternative tlds w/o the .com, but you can't reach or teach your every customer, especially the one, who hasn't seen your website.

#22 Jem

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 09:12 AM

you can't reach or teach your every customer, especially the one, who hasn't seen your website.

I agree.

My website's been online for 6-7 years and I used to make a big deal about the fact that it was ".co.uk" and people still used .com - I gave up trying in the end and bought the .com (and the .net and .org).

While emphasising the TLD might work for some, the majority just don't care enough to pay attention to it and are happy assuming that everyone uses .com

#23 saschaeh

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 09:18 AM

While emphasising the TLD might work for some, the majority just don't care enough to pay attention to it and are happy assuming that everyone uses .com


Mucho Frustrating! Perhaps as the net matures so will peoples consideration toward this...

#24 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 11:19 AM

Okay - jsut my view onthis... but I've found it saves me alot of problems... though you may disagree with the wordig/phrasing I use...

If they are to stupid/dumb/in-attentive to notice the ext. of your or your clietns websites... there business is not worth worrying about.
The same people that have problems figuring that it's not a .com are also those that seem to have issues using Carts, following simply isntructions, the inability to actually click more tha a single button on a form submit, delete data and complain that it's your websites fault (even though it has a cofirmation request page), and are generally a whole world of hassel, pain and stress.

Forget them.

Not perfect - but you do not need people like that - they cost to much in the way of resources (business and personal).

#25 bobbb

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 02:25 PM

"stupid/dumb/in-attentive".

You mention this a lot but you are wrong to think people are ignorant because they do not place as much importance as you on things that interest you.

They really do not want to know how the " Internet thing" works but just use it. That's for us (nerds, geeks, propeller heads).

When my car breaks down I don't much care about the this connected to that and all the car talk mumbo-jumbo the jock is saying. "Fix it and how much does it cost." I'm not a car guy.

I'll use another example. Let's say we were lucky enough to have an interview with Stephen Hawking and introduced this thread. He may not say it but how stupid/dumb/irrelevant/trivial this whole thing is. He is in another space and could have the same attitude about us and what we place importance on.

that seem to have issues using Carts, following simply isntructions, the inability to actually click more tha a single button on a form submit, delete data and complain that it's your websites fault

But it is. I hear of no one that has trouble buying in the supermarket. It just means it was not made simple enough for mere mortals to use. (not dummy-proof)

As a techie I use to have to write documentation for mortals and at times it was not understood yet very correct. In my "techie arrogant attitude" I would often let them feel like dummies (What? you can't read English?) and it was wrong. I'd later come back and say "how do you want it written so you can understand it."

You know what? I was just as ignorant or dummy in their field as they were dummies in mine.

Edited by bobbb, 08 October 2007 - 02:27 PM.


#26 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 05:50 PM

...bobbb...
What you say is correct and valid - but it doesn't atually alter the fact that some peole are just not going to notice/learn - so it is pointless fretting over it.

I used those words in particular to certain clients/people that I deal with.
I give them the choice - they either stop, pay attention and prove to me that they are capable of learning - or I bill them 50+ hour to undo the mistakes they have made, plus a nominal charge for wasting my time so often.
In the end, two in particualrly have come in and spendt upto 4 hours with me making their own notes and going over the same process in excess of 40 times - till it was drummed in!

No more hitting delete, wating for the new page to load asking if you really want to delete, and hitting the big red button - again!

Problem was solved.


The problem is - you cannot make people notice the extension.
You can make it more noticeable, emphasis it drastically and brand it on every piece of correspondence you have - but some folk will simply not pay attention and go else where.

Let them - as I stated - they are more trouble than they are worth.

#27 A.N.Onym

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 09:08 PM

Let's put it this way.

Any tld, different from .com, is a usability problem, because:
- people are used to sites being .com
- they enter 'yourdomain.com' anyway
- even if they remember your site is a different tld, they can't remember which (.net, .biz, .?)

So not having a .com domain is bad usability, marketing or however you put it.

Likewise, saying "They are dumb, they are not my customers" is a very inefficient approach in getting customers. What if your product is for the masses? Do you want to lose 80% of the customers?

Furthermore, if you have a high tech product, do you want to lose the respect of the people, who think going for .net instead of .com is cheap?

Edited by A.N.Onym, 08 October 2007 - 09:08 PM.


#28 JohnMu

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 10:31 PM

Hmm. It's interesting. We had a different experience in Switzerland with regards to the local country specific top-level-domain. We had domain.net, as far as we could tell the website wasn't much of a problem (because you could tell the difference), but email was -- we would consistently have people who would email info@domain.ch instead of our info@domain.net. Similarly we had a client who had a domain.com and also had the problem that users were expecting domain.ch.

It seems the users expected the .com to be in english and the local version to be in German. Outside of the local ccTLD they had no (visible) preference between .com / .net / .org.

I wonder where pseudo ccTLDs like ".la" fit in ... and what about .us?

John

#29 AbleReach

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 11:13 PM

While emphasising the TLD might work for some, the majority just don't care enough to pay attention to it and are happy assuming that everyone uses .com

I think this will change, over time.

In the late 1990's when 1-888 and 1-877 were given the same toll free status as 1-800, there was huge outcry that nobody would recognize a non- 1-800 number as toll free. Ten years later they're ubiquitous. Among many people, the Internet didn't get to be ubiquitous until very recently. Hey, add a few years for public acclimation to ubiquitous Internet and alternate tlds, and cash in on that non .com domain! As to when, want to hazard a guess?

.me could be loads of fun.


www.convince.me
www.design.me
www.sell.me

and

! www.bite.me !

#30 DianeV

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 04:23 AM

Here in the U.S., other TLDs weren't really offered by domain registrars for ages; your choices were: .com, .net and .org — with specifications regarding who could use what.

Adding to that the fact that browsers (at least the ones I've checked) default to .com if you don't enter an extension and you can see the problem that most people have. (And I suspect that we may have gotten so far into Web tech that we've forgotten just how much we know.)

That kind of means, though, that many (and maybe most) people in the U.S. aren't particularly aware of other extensions. Like John said, they're likely just trying to use the Internet.

On the other hand, if I were going to use a .net, I'd ensure that it was memorable ... hair.net.

#31 Jem

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 04:31 AM

If they are to stupid/dumb/in-attentive to notice the ext. of your or your clietns websites... there business is not worth worrying about.

What a ridiculous way to look at it.

I spend anything up to 300 a month on the Internet - on random stuff, anything that takes my fancy. This month it's probably more than that because I've just bought an expensive new hoover, a big steel dustbin, etc. I regularly forget or mistype the extensions of domains I've not been using for very long. Can any small business afford to lose 300 (that's about $600) because of 3 letters at the end of their domain?

I think it's vital that if you can't buy the .com, you market whatever extension you've got. Just because you can't reach every customer - as mentioned earlier - doesn't mean you shouldn't even bother trying.

#32 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 07:31 AM

Sorry to see that my view provoked such negative thoughts/responses...

Sorry - but I'm in business.
I come from a varied trade background - including sales/marketing.
If the lcient is taking up time, you dump them and get on to the next.
You only have so many hors in the day.
You cannot spend more than an Hour a day faffing around attepting to fix something that is out of your capacity to do so.

Unless you either club together with enough people to make up advertising for highlighting there are more than .coms and people should pay attention - then you are wasting time and money.

Do what you can - after that, it is out of your hands.

Is it that difficult to grasp what I'm saying (though I may be saying badly).
Or is it that I called a minor percentage of people on the planet dumb... and are people actually contesting that (if so, please look up Darwin Awards!).

People are people, you can only do so much for them. After that, it's down to them.


If they are clients and are of the type to "have problems" (is that better than being derogartory?), then by all means spend time with them... and bill them once it gets excessive.

If they are not your clients, if you do not have access to them and ifyou do not have control of them - there is absolutely nothing you can do.
so you do not worry overly about it - you've done what you can - why loose sleep over those that are inattentive?

Is that better?

#33 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 07:49 AM

Okay...

1) I am probably being overly heavy handed (I do have the tendency to be short, blunt and rude to some sensibilities).

2) We can disagree over peoples aptitudes as muchas we like - it doesn't change the fact that some people will never get it right in the short term.

3) Are you, (some of), suggesting that a .com is a necessity and should be the primary link/url given out due to some peoples inability to recognise/remember/recollect a different ext.?

4) Are you, (some of), stating that even if the .com doesn't quite marry-up to the business name, it should still be bought and used to ensure that the lowest common denominator are catered for?



So - if I am reading this correctly.
Joe Bloggs and his mates run a small time business that imports and exports shoes.
Their company, Sole Matters Ltd., are unable to purchase any relevat/associative .com as they are all being used.
Instead, they have opted for both a .NET and a country specific one (.co.uk/.co.nz whatever), with and without Hyphens.
www.solematters.net // www.sole-matters.net // www.solematters.co.nn // www.sole-matters.co.nn


Now I would have stated the .NET was enough...
I would have recommend picking one of the domains, and marketing with it...
www . SoleMatters . NET // www . Sole - Matters . CO . NN



Yet some of you are stating that
A) The Hyphen is going to be a problem.
B) Not having the .COM is going to be a problem.

Also, it appears that some of you are stating that having something like...
soleshoesales.com // buyshoesoles.com // shoesoleio.com
should be purchased and pushed instead of the others for the simple reason that it's a .COM...?


Is this correct?

Further - what the hell are people talking about when they say about "cheaper" for .NET domains - everywhere I look there is no price difference between .net/.info/.com./

Edited by Autocrat, 09 October 2007 - 07:52 AM.


#34 Jem

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 09:37 AM

If the lcient is taking up time, you dump them and get on to the next.
You only have so many hors in the day.
You cannot spend more than an Hour a day faffing around attepting to fix something that is out of your capacity to do so.

Nobody is saying that every single client should receive hours of attention and specific marketing just to help them out, or that every single person is going to "get it" (I said in my first post on this page that some people just don't care enough) but to ignore a person altogether just in case they're a difficult client would leave a person out of business. You don't need to be "in the business" to see that. Minor coaching is not hard.

Is it that difficult to grasp what I'm saying (though I may be saying badly).
Or is it that I called a minor percentage of people on the planet dumb... and are people actually contesting that (if so, please look up Darwin Awards!).

I am not have difficulties grasping anything. However, I find it ridiculous and rude that you're suggesting anyone who doesn't remember every single TLD every single time is simply dumb, or inattentive. Your superior attitude is totally uncalled for. I still occasionally type .com either accidentally, or as a "best guess" when I can't remember what the correct TLD is. Why, only yesterday I typed "amazon.com" when I know that I shop at "amazon.co.uk" - and have done so for 3-4 years - it's just habit, human nature even.

so you do not worry overly about it - you've done what you can - why loose sleep over those that are inattentive?

But your previous post stated that these people are stupid if they don't notice the extension of a client's website - how is that doing what you can? Doing what you can is making it obvious on the website what the website is about and how to get back to it, not just hoping those stupid/inattentive/dumb people notice the 3 or so letters in the address bar.

Edited by Jem, 09 October 2007 - 09:44 AM.


#35 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 10:15 AM

...Jem...
I can understand the sentiments, and accept the wrist slapping - but whislt happily quoting me, you didn't make any refrene to my pointing out that you should be emphasising your URL/Address, paying attention to the Ext/tld, that it should stamped on Letterheads, B.Cards etc.

That is what I refer to in regards to "doing all you can".


RE: the Clients - if they are excessive - yes, dump them. That is common business sense. Otherwise you will loose a large amoutn of resources for little gain - cutting your loses?
Further - at what point did I suggest ignoring clients in case they are a potential pain?
I didn't - I believe I refered to those that are proving a major problem!!!


RE: Superior attitude... sorry i my comments resulted in you feeling inferior.
And yes - that statement was made with intent - I have as much control over how you feel as I do of what you type into a URL.
That childish reaction aside(I do apologise for it, but won't revoke it), I made no reference to accidents/mistakes.
I made reference to those people who pay no attention and ignore all the previously suggested methods of ensuringthey pay attention or notice the details!!!



So... if you have done all that you can - made nice big bold steps in ensuring your URL/ADDRESS is clear - highlighting/drawing attention to the Ext/TLD - supplying it on all corresponence, adverts etc...
and some people still cannot get it right - then I retain the right to view them as dumb. It has been laid out for them in multiple places, with emphasis and attention grabbing efforts - yet they didn't get it right!



So - return rant aside...

I did state I may have been responding/conveying things badly.

It would help if things were taken in context and in full (e.g. I am continuing on from pervious posts rather than re-iteratig continuously).

I am sincerely sorry to have provoked/evoked such a resposne from you, and any others, yet I honestly feel/believe that you cannot gaurentee people paying attention - it is those people that I believe you should forget. If they fail to notice your efforts, and do not realise your site is not a .com... the chances are they do not visit anyone elses non .com site... as they are only thinking .com...
so why worry about it!

#36 Jem

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 10:48 AM

I am not going to reply with full quotes etc to explain where I was coming from because it seems like for the most part, we're on the same level. Or at least I think we are :rolleyes: Your explanation in this post makes much more sense and so I think that my confusion about you wanting to ignore customers is probably down to misinterpretation for whatever reason.

Thank you - for apologising and for making your point in further detail.

:thumbup_baby:

#37 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 11:00 AM

I was actually clsoe to puling the comments/posts, as I have responded badly in a few of them - I don't do subtle or tactful... and I do tend to respond with intent/feeling...

Thank you for being both gracious and mature - I will at least attempt to be a bit more mature in future.

#38 A.N.Onym

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 11:17 AM

Regarding the choice of the domain.

The answer to 3) and 4) is yes. You need to cover all the bases, even if the organization is a non-profit one. Get .com, redirect to .org, because people will always confuse them (esp those, who link to them).

Cheap not only means price (the difference is zero or a couple of $), but the time, effort and creativity it takes to get a good .com domain. .net is somewhat secondary in my eyes and may be in others'.

Whatever you mean, however, is you always loose visitors and customers to the .com version. Especially, if you are offering similar products, which even causes more confusion.


The discussion about the worthless clients has merit, when the cost of having the client is more than the profit. If it doesn't cost you to serve "dumb" people, you can market to them.

In the service business, for example, wasting time on timewasters, tire kickers, annoying people and other clients you'd fire is not good business, indeed, though.

Edited by A.N.Onym, 09 October 2007 - 11:18 AM.


#39 Guest_Autocrat_*

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 06:41 PM

I've seen that mentioned a few times.... "tyre kickers".
Where does it come from and to what does it pertain? (sounds colourful though).

#40 bobbb

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 06:48 PM

"tyre kickers" people who go into car showrooms, look around, take pamphlets, touch cars, enter them, kick a tire or two ( to make sure they are hard I guess) and you know they are not even in the market for a car or they are in an Audi showroom and are on social assistance. ...just killing time. ;)

Edited by bobbb, 09 October 2007 - 06:54 PM.




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