10 replies to this topic

[saschaeh]

I was having a debate about whether a PPC manager should give you the full list of keywords. Here is the thread that got me asking: http://www.cre8asite...e...c=53082&hl=

One could say that it is the clients IP becasue it is a service they are paying for.

Others could says that keyword selection is a large part of PPC Marketers skill and should/can be protected. Selecting variations and coming up with a viable keyword strategy that the client may/probably not know. To give this information out freely puts the manager in a vulnerable position becasue the product/service (keywords) can now easily be taken with no further payment.


Id be interested to know what you guys think?

Edited by saschaeh, 11 November 2007 - 03:37 AM.

[bwelford]

I think there's no question that if the PPC manager did the work for the client, then it would be usual for the PPC manager to give the client the keywords for free.

If the PPC manager wishes to provide the PPC management without handing over the keywords, then that service should be cheaper. However I don't think savvy customers would want to do business with such a PPC manager.

[earlpearl]

PPC isn't rocket science. I know some large ppc providers who after a number of years of running large and very profitable campaigns for their businesses lost some of those clients as they decided to take the efforts in house.

It is a risk to specialize in PPC. I firmly believe the client should know the full aspects of his/her campaign including all aspects of keywords, negative keywords, etc.

Its simply a risk for the PPC provider. One has to provide extra services and customer service to the client to maintain the account.

[projectphp]

The issue is one opf contractual arrangements. It is like code. The code you produce may be your property, may be the clients, oir it may be mostly public domain (GPL etc). The issue is purely based upon the contract sgned, the components used etc etc.

Of course, the SEs could always just supply the accounts if the client went direct, so it might be a moot point, but this is not a black and white issue.

[Angela Charles]

Perhaps the easiest way to handle the situation in a way that avoids feeling like you've given away the farm is to charge the client for the research time involved in creating the list of PPC keywords. That way, regardless of the length of the PPC campaign, the PPC manager has been compensated for the effort and the client gets material they can use again later.

[Thejspot]

I tend to agree with earlpearl, but would also take it further.

PPC isn't rocket science.

Well it's not, sure, but it is a little more complicated than what your average punter is capable of. I think chosing the keywords isn't the part that is rocket science so why bother hiding them?

You write your campaign and Google AdWords will tell you what keywords to bid on basically. The keyword selector tool will do that and it pulls keyword from your site. Also, for a lot of businesses there isn't much choice in keywords. If I sell cars there is only so many combinations of "buy car", "buy cars" that I can come up with and there are only so many terms that people looking to buy a car will type in.

Probably the 'art' of it all is making all the components work well together. So your ad copy matches the keywords, knowing which keywords to put with which adgroup, optimising the landing page, monitoring and removing bad performing keywords and adgroups and making changes to the campaign based on data from analytics and knowing how AdWords works to get the most out of it. That is the real work and the stuff that the client won't see but will make your campaign perform better than if they were to take the same amount of money and bid on the same keywords and probably not get as many clicks or sales.

[ryan5billion]

Seems like if you're a PPC Outsourcing Co. you
should define exactly what each client is purchasing
and what each service includes.

If they want a keyword list - build them a keyword
list.

If they want ENTIRE campaign management, then
that would include keywords, ads, bidding strategies
and everything else that goes into it.

In that case, I would think they would have access
to all of that anyway, as they would likely want to
have access to the Adwords account.

I think if they're paying for that kind of service
they should get access to it. If they want to setup
another campaign in a different niche. The keywords
are going to be different anyway.

[saschaeh]

ad copy matches the keywords, knowing which keywords to put with which adgroup, optimising the landing page, monitoring and removing bad performing keywords and adgroups and making changes to the campaign based on data from analytics and knowing how AdWords works to get the most out of it. That is the real work

All these services are billable right? Consulting costs, website development charges, monitoring etc... How would you guys bill for this? Have you guys create packadges?

[Kim@ASM]

I believe the keyword list is the client's property. They paid for it! And, sure you run the risk of doing all the intensive research and set-up and then having them take it in-house after a couple months. This risk is especially high with small businesses who have a low number of keywords. Some firms make clients sign a 6 or 12 month contract to combat this. I don't. I charge a set-up fee, then a regular monthly flat fee after that. If you prove that you're providing value-added services, they'll stay with you rather than take it in house. But if the firm just 'sets it and forgets it' they don't deserve their monthly management fee and deserve to lose the client, IMO.

saschaeh, in regards to your question about how firms bill there are three main ways:
1) As a percentage of ad spend.
2) Hourly rate.
3) Monthly flat fee.

I do #3.

[cline]

Obviously the relationship is negotiable and anyone can legitimately do it any way they choose, by mutual agreement with the client.

There is indeed a risk that a PPC management firm takes when taking on a new client due to the large amount of initial work required. There is a a risk that the client will end the relationship and take that work with them, preventing the PPC management firm from recouping their investment. However, the skills required for that initial work are also required for ongoing management. I did have a client do this to me once. After several months of saving on their PPC management bills they discovered they'd made an expensive mistake as their online performance deteriorated over time. They came back.

[jameszol]

The issue is purely based upon the contract sgned, the components used etc etc.

I concur with projectphp.

Our clients have ownership of everything we do for them as soon as they pay us for the work performed - and it is contractually that way by choice.

I suppose any company can write their agreement however they choose - we maintain intellectual rights to how we manage but we do not maintain rights to what we manage.

So, should a PPC Manager give client the full list of keywords? Yes, if they own it contractually. No, if they don't. If it is a gray area then I tend to side with a customer 90% of the time...give it to the customer then rewrite your agreement ASAP.