59 replies to this topic

[Jean_Manco]

This is the second in an occasional series on little problems that could deny a good site a listing in the Open Directory.

The despair of editors in Regional is the website of local interest which does not tell us the locale. Location is one of those details that can get overlooked in the concentration on superb content and cutting-edge design.

It could be a school so anxious to explain its teaching methods that it clean forgets to tell the world which city or even which country it is in. It could be an independent church that submits to North America with a city name on the site but no state or province. It could be a golf course that has a phone number, but no address, no map. These sites are not breaking any ODP rules, yet they could be unlistable.

A shop that sees its online face as purely for online sales and doesn't explain that it has a bricks-and-mortar shop front as well could be listable in Shopping, but miss out on a second listing in Regional.

Then we have the site that gives part of the address. This might be recognisable to those living close by, yet baffle editors from another continent. In the same vein are the helpful directions for getting there from the nearest village (country/state/county unspecified) or the sketch map that acts as an IQ test. Some editors refuse to be beaten. They will dig and dig, follow any clue and finally list the site in triumph after detective work worthy of Sherlock Holmes. But why make a listing so difficult?

The world is your audience on the Web. I learnt that the hard way. My site started life as a handout on research sources for my students. They are British (mainly). I didn't need to say which country I was talking about. The pages were just headed 'Sources for Building History'. But then I gave the online version the exact same title. Whoops! When I saw the frustrated souls searching my site for the Pyramids, I realised my mistake. But it was too late to change it. By then the site was listed in various places. So I live with a constant reminder of the importance of geographical clues.

[bragadocchio]

Hi Jean. Good stuff. It makes sense to have some indication of where you are on your site if you want a regional listing in the Directory.

I've noticed at least one place listed in the directory from my town that is no longer in business. They closed their local store, but the company still exists, and they have stores in other locations.

I'd sort of like to see that listing out of the directory. Or at least out of that region. It's misleading.

What happens when a business has more than one location? Will they be listed in multiple regions? Somehow, I expect that they won't. But, it seems like a good place and time to ask in the context of this thread.

[Jean_Manco]

Billl - if you PM me details of the misleadingly listed site, I'll either deal with it myself or pass it on to the relevant editor.

I hope that this thread will cover a fair bit of ground (pun intended), so ask away on location, location, location.

A business should get listed at the lowest appropriate level. What is appropriate will depend on what type of business it is. The Regional Guidelines advise us to consider address and/or area of coverage.

[list]


[*]But the Mumbai Railway Vikas Corporation is listed under Mumbai Metropolitan Region because it covers the city and suburbs. [Metro area level]


[*]A property developer with offices in Mumbai, Nagpur and Pune, all in the state of Maharashtra, but with no offices outside that state, could be listed under Maharashtra: Business and Economy: Real Estate [State level] The Real Estate Guidelines are very strict. A business will get one listing only.


[*]An online shopping site offering delivery within India only could be listed under
India: Business and Economy: Shopping [Country level]


[*]A business with offices in more than one Asian country could be listed in Regional: Asia: Business and Economy. [Continental level][list]

[Jean_Manco]

Here's an example I just came across of an increasingly popular way to show location - by a link to one of the big online map sites.

This well-designed site for St Helen's Church at Low Fell is an excellent example of good practice, with a full address beside a link to Multi-Map.

On a few sites I've seen clever use of an expanding series of maps from small scale (country or even world) to large scale, ending with a street map. I can't seem to lay hands on a good example right now though.

[bragadocchio]

This is an interesting topic. I'd love it if the local editor was more active in my area, though there is none listed for my municipality.

I did find it neat that supermarkets were listed, as were their locations, and it had each down as a [chain].

I didn't look to see if those were specific web sites for just those stores, or if they were the main corporate site, and every chain the store has holds it's own spot in a regional listing. How does that work?

Thanks, Jean.

[DianeV]

This is great data, Jean, and will be of help to people asking for listings at ODP and other directories as well.

Re the maps, here are a couple of websites that generate (from an address) a map; you can zoom in and out from street level to countryside. At least one allows links from websites:

http://www.mapquest.com/
http://www.mapblast.com

[Jean_Manco]

Bill - Interesting question, but I'll have to pass. Maybe a Regional editor will pop in spreading enlightenment.

Diane - Thanks. I think those map sites are so useful. For the UK there is
http://www.multimap.com which will provide a location map "embedded in your web site."

What I had in mind though when I mentioned the expanding series of maps was a set custom-made for a web-site on a hotel or resort or whatever. I've seen several different ways of doing it.

[brmehlman]

I am Gates of Borg. Resistance is futile. Mapblast has been assimilated.

http://mappoint.msn.com/

[Jean_Manco]

[donaldb]

I didn't look to see if those were specific web sites for just those stores, or if they were the main corporate site, and every chain the store has holds it's own spot in a regional listing. How does that work?

It sounds confusing

If "National SuperStore" has a location in my town and a web site that is specific to that location, I would list that at the locality level. If they have a sub-section of their web site that is dedicated to the special offers that I will find in my specific store, then I would maybe list that at the locality level. If it is just a 'store locator' type of thing on their national web site with only a local address page then I would probably only list them at a national level or in the locality where their headquarters is located. It's all a matter of content and sometimes it's a tough call. The guidelines are guidelines, not rules

Just because you see something in a category doesn't always make it right. A new, over-zealous editor who is looking to list every single web site that they find that mentions their hometown may go overboard sometimes and list things that maybe shouldn't be listed. You know how exciting it is for a newbie If someone points it out to us we can usually fix it up in a jif. If you see listings at a locality level that don't look like they make sense, we really do like to hear about them over at Resource-Zone.com

[bragadocchio]

Thanks. I went back and took a look. These are listed under groceries. There are five of them, and four of them are chains. The fifth is a local grocery store, with one location.

The other four link to the corporate site, rather than a unique web page for the individual store. The layout of the listing is like this:

Store Name - Shopping Center name [chain] - grocery store.

Having the shopping center name there is useful, but this seems to be more like something I would see in the yellow pages than a directory of links.

I wish that there was unique content specific to the location. That would be nice.

[Kali]

Why would anyone want a regional listing, if they can get a national/international listing?

Google PR for international cats is highest, national cats next and regional cats lowest - the only real value of the DMOZ directory is for Google PR. :cry:

[Black_Knight]

Why would anyone want a regional listing, if they can get a national/international listing?

I can think of many reasons, with the simplest and most obvious being that any local portal or directory would quite possibly only use the local/regional part of the DMOZ RDF.

Even more obviously, anyone who knows what a directory is and how to use it, should be looking for local businesses under the regional category as the first port of call.

Since many directories use keywords in the category path as a ranking criteria, choosing the appropriate region/location is likely to increase your ranking for searches that include the locality as a keyword.

There are other reasons too, but those three are quite sufficient.

[bwelford]

It's often better to be a medium-sized fish in a small pond, rather than a tiny fish in a great ocean.

[Kali]

So you would recommend tagetting a PR 2 local category in preference to a PR 6 international cat?

[Black_Knight]

So you would recommend tagetting a PR 2 local category in preference to a PR 6 international cat?

Sorry, Kali, but are you under the mistaken belief that this is an either/or issue?

If so, you're mistaken.

A site that has a regional presence, yet offers a global service is entitled to both a regional and a global listing. You never sacrifice one for the other.

[bwelford]

If you're #6 in an appropriate regional category containing 12 entries, it may well be better than being # 132 in an international category with 150 entries. The PageRank being transferred may well be somewhat comparable in the two situations.

I was really thinking more of those who may find you via a directory search. Of course DMOZ lists you alphabetically so you'd better be early in the alphabet. Best of all is to be rated by a DMOZ editor as a cool site then that little star by your entry puts you at the top of the list!

[Eddie]

Black Knight is 100% correct.

It also pays to remember that small business sites will only get a regional listing. If you apply too high up the tree it just delays a possible listing for you.

[Kali]

A site that has a regional presence, yet offers a global service is entitled to both a regional and a global listing. You never sacrifice one for the other.

Hmm, I see very few examples of this in practice, apart from large multinational corporations.

If you're #6 in an appropriate regional category containing 12 entries, it may well be better than being # 132 in an international category with 150 entries. The PageRank being transferred may well be somewhat comparable in the two situations.

The pagerank transferred from the regional cat is nowhere near that of the international cat in your example if, as is generally the case, the regional cat is 4 clicks lower down the structure. The number of links on the page would have to be of the order of 10 to the power 4 to have equivalent PR transfer.

It also pays to remember that small business sites will only get a regional listing. If you apply too high up the tree it just delays a possible listing for you.

?? If you are a small business in a lot of cases you are building a website to expand your customer base (to target a national or international audience) rather than to market to the people you are already targetting by dint of local presence/advertising. Only giving small businesses regional listings is doing them a diservice much of the time.

[Eddie]

Kali,

Dmoz doesn't care about page rank transfer. It is not in the business of giving sales.

The directory wants to give users the best results. The advice given to editors more than anything, is "describe the site, not the business"