14 replies to this topic

[Joshua Sciarrino]

Okay. (I wrote this post in a way that you don't have to go to their site, but I still provided a partial link, if you wanted to read more) I've never heard of these guys until now. And I'm somewhat tempted by it. Should I be?

http://www.forumlinkbuilding .com/view/ (just delete the space to check them out)

It's basically outsourcing some link building to some people in India. Although it seems like there site is not updated. It's at least updated to 1-25-08.

They 'promise' 6000 forum posts (which turns into links) for 7,000 USD but then they throw in 5,000 submission type services (yea...craziness, lots of work, cheap price, but it's india i guess). Submissions include 2,000 directories, 200 niche directories, 200 deep link directories, 2,300 article submission, 300 social bookmarking.

So, in truth for 7,000 USD you get close to 11,000 links (only 6,000 are 'guaranteed')

Has anyone ever used these people before?

What do you think of outsourcing?

What do you think of forum posting as link building (strictly link building)?

Smack me aside my head like you guys normally do. ;-) :flowers:

[DonnaFontenot]

SMACK! You want to hire spammers? Cuz of course that's what they are - forum spamming is well...spamming. And of course, besides that bit of ickiness, you're getting lots of low-to-no-value links. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that low value links are still a good thing to have, but that many? Not so good. Google likes to see a nice spread...a few low value links here and there is a natural thing. In fact, I'd guess that more low value links than high value links is even more natural - but a superlarge percentage of low value links probably isn't. Especially since these probably come with a footprint of some sort. But even if they manage to hide their tracks well, you're probably still wasting some money, and more importantly - you're hiring SPAMMERS. Blech. Ick. Ptooey.

I don't have a problem with outsourcing, btw. But there's a difference between outsourcing for quality work, and well, forum spamming.

Forum posting as link building? Silly, mostly. Sure, if you are an active participant at a forum, go ahead and throw a link into your sig if the rules allow it. Doesn't hurt. Might help....a little. But as a strategy? Nah.

[Joshua Sciarrino]

Well. You'd consider relevant posts spam?

That's what they claim they do. "We post 3 messages on a forum and then to another 2000 forums"

And they also claim that some are high pageranks.

*Disclaimer* I don't think this is a 'one time cure' magic pill for link building. But...I'm still tempted on using it to aid my link building efforts.

[DonnaFontenot]

Yes, I'd consider it spam. Because it is. The people writing "relevant" posts are doing so only for one reason, and it sure as heck isn't for the joy of participating in a community. Relevance isn't an indication of forum spam, imo. Intent is. Wow, I almost sound like Google.

[EGOL]

I agree with Donna.

The links will be of little -if any- value and they do nothing but trash up someone's forum with garbage posts.

The people who make these useless posts make me angry.

[fisicx]

I mod on a UK forum. We were getting new members from India every day and they all begin with a reasonable request for help. But within 24 hours another new member pops up from the same IP with a reply and a 'this website is really useful' link. There might be another couple of posts and then they disappear forever. We soon got wise to this and purge them mercilessly.

Note also that many forums have a no follow on post links and I've rarely seen a forum thread with any pagerank let alone a high pagerank.

It's spam. Don't touch with a bargepole.

(I feel all dirty now).

[EGOL]

I think that fisicx makes a good point - these links will be removed.

(laughing about the bargepole comment)

Think about your reputation.... if you are working to build a valuable site would you want 6000 bullcrap forum posts linking back to your website? This is an excellent way to stink up your brand.

Edited by EGOL, 26 August 2008 - 02:04 PM.

[A.N.Onym]

Let's see. What would you choose:
- 6000 forum spam posts and more spam to every site one can find in Google
- low traffic
- very low to none value links
- reputation as the one sponsoring spammers

or

- same amount of links
- 5-20k visitors to your site
- you gain reputation as a provider of great content
- possibly, you gain a couple of contacts
- you learn your industry more
- only your time spent or several $k spent

As you might have guessed, the latter variant is simply spending 50hrs on creating and promoting a post, interesting to your audience. Obviously, you need to know what your audience wants, what people on social sites appreciate, but that's something you need to know, really.

Edited by A.N.Onym, 28 August 2008 - 12:22 AM.

[EGOL]

I like Yura's logic... here is a little more...

You spend this $7K for a bunch of crap links that will disappear over time and not be of my use when they are online.

Or, you spend the $7K for some expert content. Let's say a great author works for about $1K per day and that gets you three great articles for $7K. You put those on your website and they start pulling a few visitors then a few links.

Soon you are ranking well for a few terms and those article can be pulling in hundreds or maybe thousands of visitors per day.

[Joshua Sciarrino]

Hmm.

How about both? Mixing quality content and forum link building (or spam as you all call it).

[phaithful]

lol ... I think you're missing the point.

Cost:
forum.spam(6000) = "$7,000"
quality.articles(3) = "$7,000"

Benefit:
quality.articles(3) > forum.spam(6000)

To me the math is simple. Everytime I have $7,000 sitting around for marketing ... spend it on Quality Articles ... it's always going to be better than low quality forum links.

[iamlost]

The real real real bottom line is that the forum (or blog comment links or whatever UGC available for spammy linkdrop leverage) link has zero nada null link juice PR value. The good fora deliberately obfusticate the link - even if it appears clean 'do-follow' it likely is not - thus killing PR passing and the SEs have long ago killed the crappy forums/blogs/etc. ability to pass much if any value.

You hear so much about such links because spam-linkdropping is a business model and you are listening to their marketing snake oil. It is simply a great big con. You might as well send money to the Nigerian with a couple of zillion in escrow. Or donate it to the charity of your choice.

The value in fora posts and in blog comments is reputation. You build a niche rep and because of that niche rep people follow the links (traffic) and subscribe to RSS feed or click an ad/af link or hire your services or buy your products (conversion) and write about you and your rep and your site and GIVE you valuable backlinks. If you have built the rep and backed it with competent content worth their link.

If you want to go the spam, churn, and burn route that is different. Build your MFA sites and party. However, you can not be both. Or at least not on the same site. Nor if your name is attached to both types - when the crap gets killed the SEs are likely to take everything identified with you down as well.

Oh, and what the others said: me too.

[EGOL]

Hmm.

How about both? Mixing quality content and forum link building (or spam as you all call it).

Double your bet on the content.

[lee.n3o]

To me the math is simple. Everytime I have $7,000 sitting around for marketing ... spend it on Quality Articles ... it's always going to be better than low quality forum links.

MAN!! I'm definitely doing something wrong... How come I don't ever have $7K sitting around for marketing

[A.N.Onym]

Technically, you can get much more for $7k.

Good articles start at $50-100 and end at about $500 (I haven't seen them for more, than $300, though, so it's my speculation).

If you have someone that you pay $1k per day to get you three (3) articles, then they will be the best of the web, which is great. In fact, I'd try to get one article, post or a small ebook for that amount and promote it heavily. It'll be much more efficient, than several (but risky, so you need to know what and how you are doing).

On the web, there are deals (from professional linkbait service providers) that also include promotion. You can find both expensive (1 post and promotion for $10k) and relatively inexpensive (same thing for $2k) offers from providers of different visibility (which is what makes them different more, than their efficiency).

Also, you can buy bulk mass produced content at a price of $300 for 8k words or $1k for an ebook, but it will only drive traffic, if you make sure the articles are
- original
- deliver value to readers
- give them something they don't get from other thousands of articles already available

and your site already has significant amount of readers to promote the articles or you plan to promote the articles heavily (yourself or with someone's help).

Now, most of the variants I mentioned get you more targeted traffic, than forum spamming. In fact, investing $7k in a single post/ebook will get you content that will be getting you links forever, especially, if you release the book for free (both in HTML form and PDF for sharing).

Now, as Lee said, having $7k to invest in website promotion is a good problem some of us wish to have. It'd pay almost a year of my work, for example. So you can start small and move from there, if you have a small budget.

And, to repeat EGOL, if you have extra cash, invest it in more valuable content.

Edited by A.N.Onym, 29 August 2008 - 06:17 AM.