40 replies to this topic

[Ruud]

Reading is writing and writing is breathing. We all breathe a lot to stay alive and we do some from the very start. As we do with with writing, is my position.

I bet you that you liked loved adored writing already in high school, didn't yah?

And if you're of that age that there was a "before the Internet" you likely poured a lot of writing into a journal (those were made out of paper back then... think of an offline hardcopy of LiveJournal...) and/or corresponding with people.

If you're from this era then you did the LiveJournal thing (or similar).

In either case, as a rite of passage you likely wrote some ... adolescent poetry... along the lines of

the darkness
lit
by your insanity
plea
trash dress lady
glee

with a doodle of Snoopy under it or some other unrelated crap stuff.

Recognize yourself? Are all good writers essentially nerds? Are you? Were you?

Edited by Ruud, 24 October 2009 - 10:07 PM.

[Ron Carnell]

Guess that depends on your definition of nerd, Ruud.

Do you really think Ernest Hemingway or Allen Ginsberg were ever nerds?

[EGOL]

I think that in a lot of fields, people who enjoy writing are hard to find. Nerds? Sometimes... but not always.

[Ruud]

Uh... Ernest did what again at high school? Wasn't it the high school paper <--- this is where nerds live As a proof of point he also wasn't that well in sport, wasn't he?

For what it's worth, I think that being given the name "Ernest" might impose nerdness upon someone the same way carrying the name "Urkel" would.

So Ernest Hemingway? *Definitely* a nerd.

And didn't Ginsberg write early on already?

Is writing something one does from early on, driven, or is it something one can pick up at any time, acquire the skill of as simple as learning how to paint a wall or carpent a floor?

[TheManBehindTheCurtain]

Do you really think Ernest Hemingway or Allen Ginsberg were ever nerds?

No, but then again, I don't really see your point, as Hemingway is the only writer in that group. :naughty:

[jonbey]

I never liked writing. I remember telling me geography teacher that I felt it was wrong that I was being judged on my ability to write an essay on a subject rather than my knowledge of it. Uni soon taught me to write better.

I think that there is a big difference between toe sort of writing that is often seen on the Internet (blogs, my sites etc.) and good writing. My writing is still pretty poor today (I have my Brazilian wife edit my English now....) but you can get away with murder on the net. Even poorly written articles can perform well in the SE's and make money.

I do wonder to what extent the algo's take into account good writing (not just correct spelling and grammer). Do not see how they can really. Did I spell grammer write?

[Ruud]

I never liked writing.

And now? Just a task? Boring task? Do you find you discover techniques?

[Wit]

If I liked to write - I wouldn't always post one-liners here

[Ron Carnell]

Is writing something one does from early on, driven, or is it something one can pick up at any time, acquire the skill of as simple as learning how to paint a wall or carpent a floor?

I believe learning to write well is, not surprisingly, a lot like learning a language well. The later in life you try either, the more effort it will require. People, sadly, often don't like to do anything that requires a lot of effort. Doesn't mean they can't, but most won't.

Driven? Writing, as with any form of art, requires a huge investment of time. Like chess, the moves can be learned quickly, but full mastery requires a lifetime of practice. There's an old saw in the publishing world that essentially suggests all first novels are junk. It is not, I think, without a lot of truth. How many people are willing to spend a year of their life creating something to throw away?

Technically, I don't think a person necessarily has to be driven. Discipline could, I suppose, be an adequate substitute. But realistically? Can you think of anything really worth mastering that doesn't require drive?

BTW, one shouldn't confuse an ability to write well (communicate) with the ability to tell a good story (entertain). While those skill sets borrow from each other, they are nonetheless different creatures.

[AbleReach]

Always loved writing, and making art.

Came late to the nerd thing.

I was more of a d0rk.

// added -- why did the spelling police change that? In some other place, does it mean something more inappropriate than klutz?

Edited by AbleReach, 25 October 2009 - 12:20 PM.

[Ruud]

Technically, I don't think a person necessarily has to be driven. Discipline could, I suppose, be an adequate substitute

Reminds me of Paul Graham's excellent "The Anatomy of Determination":

In most domains, talent is overrated compared to determination—partly because it makes a better story, partly because it gives onlookers an excuse for being lazy, and partly because after a while determination starts to look like talent.

I like your talent-practice matrix.

 21c83c532da50a4e7d77a0bdb150faf1.png   2.02K   124 downloads

I think that my gut feeling, the one that prompted this thread, tells me that people can have talent at an early age which often drives their desire to practice -- so they can become good. Of course some have talent, do not practice and do not become good writers.

At a later age it is less likely, I think, to suddenly discover the talent -- which leave practice and technique for that stage.

BTW, one shouldn't confuse an ability to write well (communicate) with the ability to tell a good story (entertain). While those skill sets borrow from each other, they are nonetheless different creatures.

Awesome distinction.

Do you think it is even possible to have the reverse of that? Is one able to show on paper the ability to entertain if one can't write well?

I was more of a d0rk

I thought d0rks were a subcategory of nerds just as geeks are? No?

[jonbey]

And now? Just a task? Boring task? Do you find you discover techniques?

No, I enjoy it now. Sometimes it is a chore, but only when I see something and think "I must blog that". But when I sit down and decide on new content and start researching it, I enjoy that. If you call me a nerd I'll knock ya lights out!

[Ruud]

d0rk

Sorry, couldn't resist

[jonbey]

Well, if that is a subcategory of nerd, the same rule applies. Sorry. Where's that knuckle duster? Can nerds be aggressive? AND. Aggressive Nerd Syndrome. Hang on, I am starting to sound a bit nerdy now. Damn. I am a nerd! Ouch!

[SEOigloo]

Ruud,
Your poem cracked me up. Yes, I recognized that.

I decided I wanted to be an author of children's books when I was 5 and I wrote little stories with illustrations on the scrap paper my father brought home from his office.

But, I have to say, my defining moment came in my first year of Junior High School when all the kids were supposed to be studying feverishly for the year's end final exams. Instead, I decided to write a novel...all about teenagers dying in amazingly dramatic manners, rather like your poem. I had fun...and I aced all my exams. So, in a way, that doesn't make me a real nerd. I think a real nerd would have felt obligated to buckle down and study, but shucks, public school was so boring; I think my mind needed to fly away just to keep itself busy. Maybe that makes me a bit more of a crazy artist than a nerd, but I admire nerds

[Ruud]

I think that makes you a nerd Let's just say that I don't see you hanging out with the Top 10 Popular Crowd in those days.

Never left you then either, I guess; the love for writing is something ... essential?

And -- looking back, what is it that caused your desire to write, you think?

[AbleReach]

I think there's a love of language and ideas that can overlap poetry but is not the same thing as a nerd's appreciation for the analytical.

Ever met someone who is intuitive but doesn't think they're creative and would certainly never claim to be artistic? Different, like that.

Edited by AbleReach, 25 October 2009 - 03:18 PM.

[Ruud]

not the same thing as a nerd's appreciation for the analytical

I don't limit nerdness to the analytical. Nor do the popular kids at school. I think sitting hunched over writing feverishly in your notebook instead of kicking on the coolest new trend qualifies one as a nerd just as easily

[SEOigloo]

Okay, I'm happy to be a nerd I always liked the kids they called nerds in school...some of the nicest children.

Ruud, I grew up in a very literary-minded family and books were held in reverence. I was in love with the books read to me as a baby and that I started to read when I was about 4 yrs. old. Becoming an author seemed the best thing in the world one could do. As I grew up, I believe it was simply intense love of language that caught me. If Philology had remained a profession (it no longer is), I might well have become a philologist. Instead, I own a website design company and continue to devour books and study languages in my leisure time.

Right now, I am studying Old Norse (Old Icelandic) and I must say, it is an incomparable thrill to study. Here is a language with grit! Here is the language of the sagas (some of my ancestors). And, by studying Old Norse, it is especially exciting that I will also be able to read modern Icelandic which has changed almost not at all in past 1000 years because of the isolation of the country. This is unique. And, I am finding that I can already get the gist of much Norwegian and some words here and there in Swedish and Danish. 1 language turns the key to others and that is a delight to me.

So, words, words, words. Have to have them!

[Ruud]

I'm impressed with that; learning Nordic. Sounds so much more difficult than something else. It compares to casually throwing out there that you're trying to pick up Mandarin

Words, books, articles -- the written word rocks, if you ask me :thumbs: