23 replies to this topic

[chuckfinley]

Bing is really reaching out to SEO's with their new tools and much dialogue about accepting the need for SEO and offering a very slick set of tools to help SEO's do it. --> http://www.bing.com/...o-analyzer.aspx

Just the opposite of Google and their endless talk about themselves and how their tools are directed at Webmasters being able to deliver to Google what Google wants, or else.

This is very savvy marketing. The timing is perfect -- reach out to SEO's right at the time that Google has chosen to declare war on SEO's and is attempting to start a civil war within the SEO Community. Their whole focus is on helping SEO's help their clients succeed.

What a breath of fresh air.

I wonder if there is a way that SEO's can help promote Bing's search engine and move users over there?

What do you think?

[EGOL]

This is a really interesting question.

I need popcorn to watch the discussion here.

Over the past year, think about how many jobs google has tried to foist onto webmasters because their algo can't handle something.

I don't hear any of that coming from Bing... of course, I hear very little coming from Bing at all. lol

Bing needs to get an adsense competitor and site search that can be monetized.

When it comes to maps, Bing's "Bird's Eye View" is the best online satellite image coverage for my area. I know a lot of people who prefer it.

I am also starting to like Bing's search results better than Google's because google is stinking up their own results by injecting local stuff, preveious search history and other crap that is irrelevant to my query.

Edited by EGOL, 23 June 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[Michael_Martinez]

Yes, you can move searchers over to Bing although Bing has made it more difficult to do so.

The first and easiest way to move searchers to Bing is to implement a site search tool that makes it obvious to the searchers that they are using Bing to search your site. Sadly, Bing destroyed this capability last year (the Bing sitesearch API is competely useless for this kind of marketing -- it doesn't pass the listings/clicks through Bing so the users never realize they are clicking on Bing data).

The next available method is to create links that point to Bing queries which feature your pages prominently.

After that you want to refer only to Bing in every blog and forum post you create, to the point of telling people to search for anything and everything on Bing.

Will you change the world? No. But you'll lead by example and at the same time you can position your site to benefit from Bing query traffic.

It would be much easier if Bing brought back its old site search functionality because the clicks on that site search data helped Bing keep your pages in its index. Bing drops pages that are not clicked on, making it even more difficult for Webmasters to support Bing.

You would probably do better to look at some of the other search engines (NOT Yahoo!) if they support real site search that passes through their index and helps you.

[iamlost]

I sometimes think that many/most SEO's are so addicted to Google that the pain and anguish of even considering alternative traffic sources means that they won't even consider it. Not even when they tank in Google's query returns. The fora are always full of 'what do I need to do to get G to love me again'; and when someone suggests alternatives they whine about how 'only Google' works for them...even as they whimper about lost Google love.

I'm on record several times in Cre8 threads saying that SE traffic is ~40% of my traffic with Google ~50-63% of that (~20-25% of total traffic). And while Bing - and Yahoo - send about half what Google sends, for my sites, they convert 1.5 to 2.8 times better. In other words they are, collectively worth about the same or more than Google.

I can't offer up any secret sauce. Research and test. Of course the more a site is specifically Google optimised the less it may (but not necessarily) be optimised for another SE's algo. Reason #37 that 'algo chasing' is counter-productive and silly.

[chuckfinley]

I'm on record several times in Cre8 threads saying that SE traffic is ~40% of my traffic with Google ~50-63% of that (~20-25% of total traffic). And while Bing - and Yahoo - send about half what Google sends, for my sites, they convert 1.5 to 2.8 times better. In other words they are, collectively worth about the same or more than Google.

That statement alone is an incredible marketing message for Bing.

I wonder what would happen if SEO's started advising their clients that it would be better for users (website visitors) to come to them through Bing -- better conversion, better management tools, no threats of putting you out of business, etc. The idea would be to get website owners to see the benefit of driving traffic through Bing so they would be willing to promote Bing on their websites. Maybe put Bing's Logo on their website and add some testimonials from satisfied Bing customers -- they use Bing, you should too.

Maybe there are better ideas to start a grass roots movement in the direction of Bing and away from the Evil Empire? Based on what has happened lately, I could put together a smokin' PR campaign for Bing that would move massive amounts of traffic to their search engine.

What ideas can you add?

Maybe SEO's and Webmasters should pay back Search Engines that are on their side and interested in producing for the website owners. After all, it's the website owners that bring the traffic from which that other search engine (rhymes with boondoogle and starts with G) gets its massive revenue.

Edited by chuckfinley, 26 June 2012 - 03:58 PM.

[EGOL]

Maybe put Bing's Logo on their website and add some testimonials from satisfied Bing customers

I am ready to put this up immediately if they are willing to pay for the space.

If they have a site search that monetizes well and puts my images beside the search results... I am ready.

[jonbey]

Why would an SEO want to change the engine that people use? Surely it makes sense to follow the people, not get the people to follow you?

[chuckfinley]

Why would an SEO want to change the engine that people use? Surely it makes sense to follow the people, not get the people to follow you?

I'm fairly new to the search space and I'm astounded at what everyone will put up with to be blessed with top Google Search Results. Google is fickle and could care less about you. If you have a business where you invest a lot of money in your website, the uncertainty as to whether Google will whack you is prohibitive. As a matter of fact, the Google brown noses (they want the blessings that will follow from the great Google Gods) will all tell you that Website Owners don't count for anything with Google, its the searchers that bring their revenue -- What? It's the Website Owners that attract the searches -- what kind of twisted Bizarro World is this?

When's the last time Bing penalized anyone and trashed their whole business? Do you guys really want to keep doing business with Google and hope that you aren't collateral damage?

Bing has shown that they want to work with SEO's and Website Owners so the Website Owners make more money and so will they. They know that's the way to succeed long-term. The first time Google hits a bump, everyone will turn on them and they will be history.

I'm suggesting people Take The Bull By The Horns and create a win-win relationship with Bing rather than standing in place and taking the abuse from Google.

The alternative is to keep taking the abuse from Google and hope it's just the other guy that gets whacked.

Have you no shame, Man?

Edited by chuckfinley, 26 June 2012 - 06:13 PM.

[jonbey]

I know where you are coming from, I was heavily slapped by Google once myself. But, if everyone did move to Bing, what is to say that Bing would not be forced to change the way it ranks pages? If Bing's marketing department are failing to get people to use Bing (there have been a lot of adverts on television here in the UK in recent years) how are SEOs going to make a difference? I am pretty sure that the only people to read the opinions of an SEO are other SEOs ....

I would love it if more people used Bing as one of my sites ranks better there, but I will continue to work on building awareness of my own site (across all platforms) and not do Microsoft's job for them!

[jonbey]

When's the last time Bing penalized anyone and trashed their whole business?

Not sure any web business has ever relied heavily enough on Bing to be trashed by them, by they do certainly penalise sites in the same way that Google do - http://www.bing.com/...er/f/12252.aspx

funny reading there. Bing Webmaster Forums is really just a spamming network! But some people do appear to suffer from sites being de-indexed.

[tam]

The issue is relying heavily on anyone. It does worry me that google could take away 80% of my traffic (and income) in some cases and I'd have no recourse. What would be great, was a wider spread of traffic, 40% each from two different engines, and one changing things up has much less impact - more engines even better. Trouble is, even if your lucky enough to grab all the searches from bing for you niche, it's still nowhere near google.

[chuckfinley]

Not sure any web business has ever relied heavily enough on Bing to be trashed by them, by they do certainly penalise sites in the same way that Google do - http://www.bing.com/...er/f/12252.aspx

funny reading there. Bing Webmaster Forums is really just a spamming network! But some people do appear to suffer from sites being de-indexed.

It must take a really bad hombre to get de-indexed on Bing

My thinking was, why not go to where the ROI is based on the @iamlost post above --

I'm on record several times in Cre8 threads saying that SE traffic is ~40% of my traffic with Google ~50-63% of that (~20-25% of total traffic). And while Bing - and Yahoo - send about half what Google sends, for my sites, they convert 1.5 to 2.8 times better. In other words they are, collectively worth about the same or more than Google.

Also, the only thing that is going to make Google want to actually provide service to Website Owners is competition. They just brutalize Website Owners with impunity. That they can "dis" the very people that feed their livelihood is mind boggling to me -- on the same level as American politics, LOL!

I say we start a revolution and show Website Owners how to get their visitors to use Bing to get a better experience. And, we get a better conversion rate and we make Google have to work to get our involvement or we'll drive business for Bing.

Nothing like a little healty competition to get a business owner's attention and to refamiliarize them with the concept of service.

For my money, the people at Google are way too negative. They need to get a new view.

Edited by chuckfinley, 26 June 2012 - 08:30 PM.

[chuckfinley]

The issue is relying heavily on anyone. It does worry me that google could take away 80% of my traffic (and income) in some cases and I'd have no recourse. What would be great, was a wider spread of traffic, 40% each from two different engines, and one changing things up has much less impact - more engines even better. Trouble is, even if your lucky enough to grab all the searches from bing for you niche, it's still nowhere near google.

There are a lot of reasons far beyond e-commerce that make it wise to have Search Engines that are more at parity. That amount of power shouldn't be concentrated with any one business.

But, in the more limited case that we're dealing with right now -- Bing vs Google -- we could easily influence our website visitors to look us up through Bing. May have to get busy figuring out what it takes to rank well in Bing, but I predict it will be well worth it, both in increasing visitor experience and conversion as well as limiting the risk that Google being too large presents.

You could be out of business tomorrow, it just depends on how Eric Schmidt feels tomorrow when he gets up. They will never tell you in advance what new rules they dreamed up last night and they won't see any problem with being fickle. That is, unless there is competition that forces them to start to care about the experience that Website Owners have when working with Google.

Edited by chuckfinley, 27 June 2012 - 01:34 AM.

[chuckfinley]

Why would an SEO want to change the engine that people use? Surely it makes sense to follow the people, not get the people to follow you?

Might make sense to go where the ROI is. ???

[jonbey]

But, if Yahoo/Bing tends to provide better conversions, which I have heard several people suggest over the years, then this suggests that the mindset of the average Yahoo/Bing user is somehow different. If you drag in the Google riffraff then surely all you will achieve is lowering the conversion rates of Yahoo/Bing searchers?

[iamlost]

But, if Yahoo/Bing tends to provide better conversions, which I have heard several people suggest over the years, then this suggests that the mindset of the average Yahoo/Bing user is somehow different. If you drag in the Google riffraff then surely all you will achieve is lowering the conversion rates of Yahoo/Bing searchers?

Just as there is a general difference in type of users on various webdev fora Bing, Google, and Yahoo each differ somewhat by demographics, etc. Which SE performs best may vary depending on niche and site target audience.

As to conversion rates: I separate out by category, i.e. SEs, and here for me Google does pull down the category percentage somewhat, however, as I also separate out by category players I can view how each SE does individually, no riffraff effect. Not that Google traffic is riffraff, just a lower percentage of 'buyers' compared to Bing or Yahoo - for my sites.
Note: yes, Yahoo uses Bing search, however, Yahoo's user base remains different than Bing's.

[Michael_Martinez]

Why would an SEO want to change the engine that people use? Surely it makes sense to follow the people, not get the people to follow you?

That's exactly how we operated in the old days when there were multiple search engines that people cared about. If you could not succeed with one search engine you changed direction and focused on another, using your sites to promote that search engine so that more people would use it.

The principle would still work today although not as well. But it's basic marketing. Tell people where to look for your bags of gold and they'll go dig there.

Edited by Michael_Martinez, 28 June 2012 - 01:10 AM.

[chuckfinley]

That's exactly how we operated in the old days when there were multiple search engines that people cared about. If you could not succeed with one search engine you changed direction and focused on another, using your sites to promote that search engine so that more people would use it.

The principle would still work today although not as well. But it's basic marketing. Tell people where to look for your bags of gold and they'll go dig there.

That's a great thought and I predict it will come back into vogue soon.

Edited by chuckfinley, 28 June 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[chuckfinley]

Barry Schwartz at Search Engine Roundtable put up this post the other day --

Bing Winning The Hearts Of SEOs To Change Market Share? --> http://www.seroundta...love-15356.html

And, a comment thread starts with --

dirigodev
I'm a webmasterworld user. I run around $70MM a year in pure-play e-commerce (100% internet business). I operate quality sites with substantial budgets in content development and online advertising. I can only speak for myself here. For the past year Google has made it extremely difficult. The regular patterns have gone away. Is this Google or the economy? To me, it look like Google. I'm deep into analytics and looking at patterns (proprietary stuff - not GA). They're bleeding us.
This is why webmasters are outraged. Businesses need stability. For the first time since 1999 my businesses are starting to move into print, radio and TV to hedge against Google risk. I'd like Google to have ~30% market share and to do my part I'm using my power as a technology leader to encourage user (entire companies) to set their default search engine to something other than Google. I'm not alone. We, the user, have the power to change the search world!
I've likely moved several hundred users. This is my way of settling the score. I will continue to push for more varied search engine use until Google levels out and brings about stability.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Google may have awakened a sleeping giant???

Edited by chuckfinley, 01 July 2012 - 12:26 AM.

[chuckfinley]

Then yesterday Barry posted this --

Bing Launches Disavow Links Tool Before Google --> http://www.seroundta...tool-15370.html

And, Barry says this -- "Is this more of Bing's attempt to win the hearts of SEOs to maybe impact market share?"

A comment from the comment thread --
Webstats Art
I doubt it but it would be a good thing for some of us. At least if they could take 50% of the market etc.. Wouldn't it be great if we had 10 search engines each having 10 percent of the market?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

What's going on? Do you think this is a planned marketing effort by Bing to win over SEO's? Can they suceed?

Edited by chuckfinley, 01 July 2012 - 12:27 AM.