Jump to content

Cre8asiteforums Internet Marketing
and Conversion Web Design


Photo

If All You Do Is "follow Google's Guidelines", I'd Say That's Now A High Risk Seo Strategy.

follow g##### guidelines? do we trust google link building

  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 clandestino

clandestino

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 985 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:53 PM

This is another great article from Peter Da Vanzo at SEO Book --> The Benefits Of Thinking Like Google

 

Those with a vested interest in the link building industry - which is pretty much all of us - might spot the problem.
Google’s negative emphasis, of late, has been about links. Their message is not new, just the emphasis.

 

The point is, this is just the emphasis today and will be forgotten for a new emphasis tomorrow.

 

Forget the frantic push to remove links and disavow them.  You're playing into g#####'s hand.  Scaredy cat SEO's and Webmasters screwing themselves and the rest of us in the process.

 

Do you really think your site is going to recover anyway?

 

G##### will never stop, they never have and they never will.  And I suspect they ascribe to the W.C. Field method of customer service when it comes to Webmasters and SEO's --> Never give a sucker an even break.

 

SEO Book makes a good observation here -->

 

It strikes me you can lose your rankings at anytime whether you follow the current guidelines or not,
especially when the goal-posts keep moving. So, the risk of not following the guidelines, and following the guidelines but not ranking well is pretty much the same - no traffic.

 

Kind of does a good job of highlighting how useless the "just do it g#####'s way and I'll show you how" industry's purpose is.  Or lack of lack of purpose, depending on how you want to look at it.

 

What do you think?  Should we just walk away and look for other channels proclaiming to the world that we're smarter than people that take advantage of a very useful and revenue producing channel.  Should we run our site's squeaky clean and get no traffic, or much less than we could have otherwise, knowing that we'll still probably get penalized anyway just for being on the internet?

 

I suspect that people that say play it safe don't have have a product that they can make money with so they have nothing to lose.



#2 iamlost

iamlost

    The Wind Master

  • Admin - Top Level
  • 4455 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:00 PM

As you know I don't pay much attention to what Google says because it tends to fall into one of the following categories:
* greatly simplified plain vanilla design best practices aka WebDev 101.
* requests for enabling behaviour to cover Google inadequacies, I.e. rel=anything.
* failure to accept responsibility for the consequences of their own behaviours, I.e. continued proliferation of MFA scraper sites.
* FUD.

That said Google is doing very well for Google. And along the way has done very well for a great many webdevs and fellow travellers. Indeed continues to do well for Google and a great many webdevs et al. Even some who can't, don't, won't look elsewhere for either traffic or revenue (here's looking at you, EGOL! :)) the fact is, that just as Google's AdWords revenue tends to still rise YoY so too does the AdSense publisher payout amounts noted in their financial statements.

There seems to be an expectation that what was, is, and shall be ad infinitum, which is idiotic to say the least. And as markets mature the prospectors and wildcatters get pushed aside by the establishment. So, unless one has succeeded in becoming a nouveau riche member of the establishment one needs to either find a viable niche in the new ecosystem or move on. Adapt or die.

And bloody well stop treating Google as the universe and everything. It's not; 42 is.

#3 clandestino

clandestino

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 985 posts

Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:54 AM

The point is, g##### will hand it to you no matter what you do so you may as well establish an agressive strategy.

 

Competition is tough and it takes every available channel to succeed.  The other option is to bring in a small fraction of the traffic that you could.  As Peter points out -- then you're just penalizing yourself.

 

And, everyone should stop the link hysteria, they're just filling g#####'s database which will lead back to them.  Just wait till this blows over.  Links are at least 50% of ranking, always have been and always will.  Unless you have a million links, more targeted links can help a site expand the keywords they rank for.

 

There's still a way to get the links.  I suspect g##### is happy to let you have them, if you're the right type of site.  Brand signals will help here.


Edited by chuckfinley, 29 August 2013 - 02:57 AM.


#4 glyn

glyn

    Sonic Boom Member

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 2331 posts

Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:38 AM

I like this post, I think it has merit.

 

Consider that the Google guidelines are sufficiently broad to ensure that when your site comes up on the first page in a very competitive niche due to your SEO doing great optimization, that they (Google) will be able to find at least one thing that can be used as a reason to apply a partial match manual penalty. I am currently being trawled through over 10 years of old backlinks by the Google quality team for a website that they decided to re-apply a manual penalty after it was cleared. They are now citing links that were created prior to the previous ban being lifted.

 

So, that's the bottom line.

 

The consequence: I am unplugging all my sites from Google, as it will take my focus away from all the antics which is all about getting webmasters to jump through hoops for a bit of free traffic.

 

Goodbye Google!

 

G.



#5 DonnaFontenot

DonnaFontenot

    Peacekeeper Administrator

  • Admin - Top Level
  • 3705 posts

Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:34 AM

I am unplugging all my sites from Google

 

what do you mean?



#6 clandestino

clandestino

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 985 posts

Posted 29 August 2013 - 01:13 PM

what do you mean?

 

Remove webmaster tools & google analytics.

 

If there's a penalty in the future, you'll know it because traffic will drop -- which is all that is important.

 

But, in the process, you'll remove yourself from the collective and it will be much harder for g##### to track you and penalize you.

 

Why help g#####, they aren't even providing useful traffic data anymore.



#7 clandestino

clandestino

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 985 posts

Posted 29 August 2013 - 01:16 PM

Consider that the Google guidelines are sufficiently broad to ensure that when your site comes up on the first page in a very competitive niche due to your SEO doing great optimization, that they (Google) will be able to find at least one thing that can be used as a reason to apply a partial match manual penalty.

 

Exactly.



#8 iamlost

iamlost

    The Wind Master

  • Admin - Top Level
  • 4455 posts

Posted 29 August 2013 - 04:13 PM

Welcome to the real world, glyn. :)

Where Google is appreciated but not favoured; where Google is part of the known web, not all of it; where discovery is still cool and traffic flows are many and varied, not singular and subject to sudden unexpected drought; where innovation and marketing are expansive, not curtailed... On second thought... Go back to your G-dependency, you know you miss it... Yes you do... :D

#9 clandestino

clandestino

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 985 posts

Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:08 PM

The real question is -- How, strategically, do we take g##### out of the game for e-commerce?  Who cares about information sites, those guys are just fooling around.



#10 EGOL

EGOL

    Professor

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 5177 posts

Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:12 PM

Who cares about information sites, those guys are just fooling around.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Chuck...  have you thought about creating an information site with a store?   Kickass.  Kickass.  Will beat all of the e-commerce sites out there. 



#11 clandestino

clandestino

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 985 posts

Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:27 PM

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Chuck...  have you thought about creating an information site with a store?   Kickass.  Kickass.  Will beat all of the e-commerce sites out there. 

 

You're right about that.  I'm talking about the guys with no product, just adsense or selling ads, etc.



Btw, what you suggest is a great link building tool too.



Why don't you talk about some of those strategies here at Cre8asite?  There's a lot of people that come here that could learn from your experience.



Back to the original question -- How, strategically, do we take g##### out of the game for e-commerce?



#12 EGOL

EGOL

    Professor

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 5177 posts

Posted 30 August 2013 - 02:05 PM

Back to the original question -- How, strategically, do we take g##### out of the game for e-commerce?

 

Buy ads on all of those info sites.  :)   That will bring in sales without getting them from google.

 

 

 

 

 

This isn't 100% off topic here....  Read it twice... first from the perspective of a retailer who wants to get sales from channels other than Google.   Then read while you think about those guys who are farting around with their ads....  :)  

 

I have a small collection of articles about a product in a folder on an info site.  The index page of that folder ranks #1 for a short-tail product term and the subpages are ranking #1 for much of the long-tail.  The ads on those pages have a 10% CTR....  and the conversion rate of the buyers from an info site can be higher than you get through the SERPs or through Adwords.   You just have to find the right info site.   (I know because I own some of the retail sites on the other side of those ads.)  

 

But the ad income in the info site can be higher than the profit margin of the retail site.   (The profit margin on ads is 100%... the profit margin on product sales acquired from PPC can be very very low... some people lose money there and don't know it.   This is why so damn many retail sites display ads.  :-)  

 

Almost every page of the store on my info site has ads.  They really don't damage sales and for many types of products ads generate more profit than the retail sales.  The retailer advertising on the info site might be putting 15% of his sales into advertising.  He has a 15% profit margin on sales after paying for those ads.  The info site got  his 15% ad budget and didn't do any work.  The retailer has to do piece work on every single one of those orders.  The info site guy sits back and collects money for years and years... even after he is retired or dead those pages are still makin' money.

 

If you really want the high quality traffic you need to buy the ads on iamlost's site.  He keeps out the bots and probably bans half of the traffic that just clicks ads to see what's on the other side.   :)   


Edited by EGOL, 30 August 2013 - 02:12 PM.


#13 clandestino

clandestino

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 985 posts

Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:56 PM

EGOL,

Excellent post, thank you that. I stand corrected.

When you were first starting out, how did you find advertisers and how did you screen them?

#14 EGOL

EGOL

    Professor

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 5177 posts

Posted 02 September 2013 - 11:39 AM

Most of my ad income comes from Adsense.

 

Many of the ads that Adsense delivers are contextual. That means they match the content of your page.  So, if you have a collection of articles about coffee makers (hypothetical product), Adsense ads will be about coffee, coffee makers, and coffee maker supplies.  So on your article page titled "How to select a coffee maker for your office"...  the coffee maker ads are actually excellent content and can get clicked like crazy.  They also have a great conversion rate for the advertiser because these people were searching for tips about buying a coffee maker.

 

The people who sell these coffee makers are bidding for the space, they are getting highly motivated traffic and they have a website with a finely tuned conversion rate.   So, they are willing to pay a nice amount of money for the ads.  These are not five cent clicks.

 

So, I didn't find my first advertisers.  Google found them. 

 

But, if you have a site that is ranking #1 in the SERPs for lots of coffee maker topics..  etc.  then some advertisers will want space on your site.   After selling space directly to some of these guys, I decided to add a store onto my site and become a retailer - that would allow me make the profit on the sale and keep google's cut of the advertising.  

 

I also launched a couple niche product sites and filled them with informative content.  Now they have their own rankings and receive traffic from the info site.

 

Google allows anyone using adsense to use the DFP ad server. That allows you to tell google... "this advertiser pays $8.00/CPM" and google will show adsense if they can beat the $8.00.  If they can't beat the $8.00 then the advertiser's ad displays.   So, if I own the retail site on the other side of the ads I can use my average shopping cart value, my profit margin and my conversion rate to place a value on my ad impressions.  Then allow google to decide if my ads shows or if Adsense gets the impression.  I am very happy when google gives the ad impression to someone else.  That means good money and no work for me.  :)


Edited by EGOL, 02 September 2013 - 11:43 AM.


#15 EGOL

EGOL

    Professor

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 5177 posts

Posted 02 September 2013 - 11:50 AM

Another strategy if you have a content site.....

 

You probably notice some of the content recommendation ads (such as the ones by outbrain)...   "You might like these..."  as a heading and text links to stories on other websites. 

 

Those links pay the publisher when they are clicked.   I tried some of these "ads" on my site and they paid a little money.  So, I thought... Instead of advertising their content, I will advertise my own content and make money from the extra pageviews and adclicks.  


And,  instead of sending the visitor to another site, I will show the visitor more of my own great content.  I have been doing that for a few months and I am pleased with the results.  Bounce rate is down, pageviews are up.  Income is almost as good as what I was being paid - but this is an investment in my visitors and they will be more likely to return to my site because they got to see more.

 

Again, you can calculate the CTR of your house "ads" and you can calculate the value of your average pageview.  So, you can set a value on your own content recommendations and run them in DFP against ads from adsense or other networks.

 

MOST IMPORTANT... you are promoting your own site instead of the other guy's. 



#16 EGOL

EGOL

    Professor

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 5177 posts

Posted 02 September 2013 - 11:58 AM

You can also run adsense and a retail product in an A/B test.  You know the conversion rate and the profit margin for the retail product and you can put your adsense in a channel to isolate that ad.  Adsense does not have to "beat" the retail product to be the real winner - because with adsense you don't have to service the sale, rent warehouse, move inventory, etc.   It scales perfectly and you don't even have to deposit the income into your bank account.  It might still be makin'  money after you are dead.



#17 iamlost

iamlost

    The Wind Master

  • Admin - Top Level
  • 4455 posts

Posted 02 September 2013 - 12:51 PM

Another strategy if you have a content site.....
 
Those links pay the publisher when they are clicked.   I tried some of these "ads" on my site and they paid a little money.  So, I thought... Instead of advertising their content, I will advertise my own content and make money from the extra pageviews and adclicks.  

And,  instead of sending the visitor to another site, I will show the visitor more of my own great content.  I have been doing that for a few months and I am pleased with the results.  Bounce rate is down, pageviews are up.  Income is almost as good as what I was being paid - but this is an investment in my visitors and they will be more likely to return to my site because they got to see more.
 
Again, you can calculate the CTR of your house "ads" and you can calculate the value of your average pageview.  So, you can set a value on your own content recommendations and run them in DFP against ads from adsense or other networks.
 
MOST IMPORTANT... you are promoting your own site instead of the other guy's. 

When a prof starts to think marketing...although I had thought from prior threads/conversations you were doing this for ?years? already...

Your A/B test post is also right on the money...and makes an important point - comparing total costs is critical to making informed decisions.

#18 EGOL

EGOL

    Professor

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 5177 posts

Posted 02 September 2013 - 01:48 PM

although I had thought from prior threads/conversations you were doing this for ?years? already...

 

I have been doing it for years... but... within the past year:  1)  I started using DFP;    2) attended one of Google's publisher meetings;   and,  3) gotten inspiration of all of the news sites selling their visitors through Outbrain and similar products (those dummies!).

 

The convergence of these three things have inspired me to become a hard core mathematician again.  :)

 

I should have been doing more math all along.  I fixed a few holes in the seive.  :C _DOCUME~1_Donna_LOCALS~1_Temp



#19 clandestino

clandestino

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 985 posts

Posted 02 September 2013 - 11:43 PM

EGOL,

 

Thanks for all that info, that was very helpful.

 

Based on what you said, I'm doing the calculations right now -->

 


Android -- 9-2-13 072.jpg


Edited by chuckfinley, 02 September 2013 - 11:44 PM.


#20 clandestino

clandestino

    Honored One Who Served Moderator Alumni

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 985 posts

Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:17 PM

Here's a low-risk SEO Strategy, The 100% Google Cure -->   The 100% method to recover from any Google penalty (penguin, panda, and all to come)


Edited by chuckfinley, 13 October 2013 - 06:18 PM.




RSS Feed


Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: follow g##### guidelines?, do we trust google, link building

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users