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dont give g##### data

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#1 clandestino

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:02 PM

Oh, those were the days.  Back in elementary school when we had no responsibility and we would .......  Oops forgot people are reading this ;)

 

Over that last week of reading here at Cre8asite Forums, there have been some pretty interesting and important posts/comments that have been happening.

 

As I was reading, I realized there was a confluence of events and thoughts coming together that are unmistakeable.  What to do next is obvious based on these events.

 

We have a lot of creative and very smart people posting here.  Their thoughts are on the cutting edge of SEO and Online Marketing.  A wealth of information and strategies than can help any online business become more profitable.

 

So the events that all came together as I see it -->

 

I started the week by starting a discussion on how to get g##### to treat webmasters and SEO's as customers and offer support for penalties. --> Google Preys On Webmasters -- How To Stop Them

 

g##### doesn't give us any service or respect for that matter.  A little like being Rodney Dangerfield -->

 

 

Then @earlpearl brought up a really important issue -- g##### hiding keyword data, so, even if you have their analytics, you can't tell what keyword a user keyed in.  Soon we'll be flying blind.  Once again they sucked us in -- this time with a little free data -- then decided they don't want to give it to us anymore once they think they don't need us. -->  The Crushing Impact Of Not Provided

 

Then Kim put up a post asking --> Are You Fed Up With Search Engine Marketing? Is This Is The End Of The Road?

 

And, of course, @iamlost added some very relevant history and analysis of key SEO concepts and pointed out that the real problem is all these webmasters really just have brain damage and that's the problem -->

 

 


And Glyn made another very interesting comment on whether to use g#####'s products.  Not whether you should use g##### as a channel, which of course you should, but rather whether to use their products.  Interesting .......   --> 

 

A website with 3-4K visitors a day has a lot of people to market too, I
think that now marketing to those people is much more valuable than
spending too much time working out Google's next whoodini. It's part of
that reason why I am unconnecting properties from the Matrix (Google)
and basically not going down that whole "merge with the borg because we
want to help you succed".

 

After thinking about it, it occurred to me.  -->  Why should I give g##### my data if they won't give me theirs? 

 

Wouldn't that be the best way to respond to g##### if they don't want to treat us as customers and they believe it's O.K. to penalize our websites and not tell us why and then not give us due process or recourse.

 

It's kind of like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football and Lucy pulls it out the way at the last minute -- Every Time!  It's time we learned.

 

Charlie Brown.JPG

 

As @glyn suggests, we should just disconnect from the Matrix -- not be controlled by the Borg.

 

It's simplicity,  it's beautiful,  and it's productive.

 

Instead of saying, "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more."  Maybe we should say -->

 

"If you show me yours, I'll show you mine."

 

"No support from you, then no support from me.  Fair is fair, isn't it?"

 

Disconnect from Webmaster tools, g##### Analytics, g-mail, Chrome, etc., etc, etc.  Why make it easy for them to track you when they won't support you?


Edited by chuckfinley, 07 September 2013 - 07:08 PM.
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#2 DonnaFontenot

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 09:47 PM

That is a reasonable way to fight back.



#3 bwelford

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 01:57 PM

The only question is 'How can David slay Googliath?'  What's the modern equivalent of a slingshot and three small stones?



#4 clandestino

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:59 PM

Unplug, unplug, unplug, my friend.

 

Do not block g##### with robot.txt, take all the free traffic they'll let you have. 

 

Just uplug so they can't track you, use your data to sell advertising and penalize you, or at least it will make it a lot harder for them to do it. 

 

We know that's important by their actions -- they're always trying to get us to clean up for them because their algorithm can't handle it.  Just stop doing it.  Don't boycott their free traffic.  Just boycott working for g##### for free and getting a slap in the a$s in return as their way of thanking you.

 

In the immortal words of Arlo Guthrie in his song Alice's Restaurant and the formation of the "Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacree Movement" -->

 

 

And friends, somewhere in Washington enshrined in some little folder, is a
Study in black and white of my fingerprints. And the only reason I'm
Singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar
Situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a
Situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into
The shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say "Shrink, You can get
Anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if
One person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and
They won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
They may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
Singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an
Organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said
Fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
Walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

And that's what it is , the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacree Movement, and
All you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the
Guitar.

With feeling. So we'll wait for it to come around on the guitar, here and
Sing it when it does. Here it comes.......


Edited by chuckfinley, 08 September 2013 - 03:01 PM.


#5 tam

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:04 PM

David v. Goliath... isn't Bing David? Making webmasters the rest of the army running about but ultimately absolutely no help in deciding the matter.



#6 bobbb

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:40 PM

I can see the unplug from GA because we are giving up way more. They now have all the stats about your site including how well the other search engines are doing. I'd be curious if they find that information valuable and how much if they do.

 

What does WMT give them? A list of all your pages? Hmmm. What pages come up in all google searches. Hmmm.

 

Bing is not really small but just a new born.

 

How can David slay Googliath?

By giving the kids in school free tablets with the standard IE and possibly FF included but using Bing as primary search engine and MSN messenger as homepage just as they did with office by letting people steal it for years. Their minds are easy to mold at that age.

 

And by covertly financing any legal "monopoly" fight that some sharp lawyer shark will eventually come up with against G.


Edited by bobbb, 08 September 2013 - 03:50 PM.


#7 clandestino

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:07 PM

I set up a new computer and reformatted the C drive on an existing laptop, so I've been downloading a lot of stuff to install.

 

I'm starting to see more downloads where a box to switch your default homepage to Bing/MSN is already checked and you have to change it if you want to keep your browser's default home page.

 

Just the other day, on my new computer, I got switched from g##### to MSN.  I have no idea how.  I was downloading so many things I don't know what I was installing, guess I should pay closer attention.

 

Microsoft is on the move.



#8 clandestino

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:16 PM

David v. Goliath... isn't Bing David? Making webmasters the rest of the army running about but ultimately absolutely no help in deciding the matter.

 

That's the way it's going today alright.

 

But back in the 60's a bunch of college students decided they wanted change.  Who are college students?  They don't even vote.  Kind of like a flea on the coat of the US governement.  Most people figured the government would just flick them off.

 

Those guys changed the world -- Vietnam came to an end.

 

It can happen.  Just unplug and tell someone you did it.  You never know.  It could become a Movement.



#9 clandestino

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:23 PM

What does WMT give them? A list of all your pages? Hmmm. What pages come up in all google searches. Hmmm.

 

They track links and keyword use there and a lot of other information about your site.

 

If they didn't want to use that database to track your links, keywords, other info, etc., wouldn't they have to create a new database?  More money, more bandwidth (which they're short on).

 

It seems it would create a problem for them.  They're always forcing us to do their work for them so it can't be that easy for them to get all this done.  It makes me think that it would overload them if everyone dropped out.



#10 bobbb

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 12:54 AM

They track links and keyword use there and a lot of other information about your site.

They would have this anyway whether I opted in or not or anyone else. I went GA because I presumed, wrongly, that I would get all my keywords that are not provided now unless it is there and I don't know how to use it. They would save processing time and money by not giving me access. I see this as me taking. I do object to giving all my info to GA and not getting much back. I have no store so I see things differently. Am actually thinking of going PIWIK

 

More interesting is where does that come from that they are short on bandwidth? ..because when they did the hotlink image thing the first thought crossing my mind was they were now using my bandwidth instead of theirs to show my images. Cheapskates.


Edited by bobbb, 09 September 2013 - 01:15 AM.


#11 clandestino

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:16 AM

They would have this anyway whether I opted in or not or anyone else. I went GA because I presumed, wrongly, that I would get all my keywords that are not provided now unless it is there and I don't know how to use it. They would save processing time and money by not giving me access. I see this as me taking. I do object to giving all my info to GA and not getting much back. I have no store so I see things differently. Am actually thinking of going PIWIK

 

More interesting is where does that come from that they are short on bandwidth? ..because when they did the hotlink image thing the first thought crossing my mind was they were now using my bandwidth instead of theirs to show my images. Cheapskates.

 

I may not be using the term "bandwidth" in a technically correct way.  In business we often say we don't have the "bandwith" when we don't have the resources necessary to get the job done.

 

Back in about 2006, an IR Scientist, Dr. E.  Garcia, brutally flamed Rand Fishkin, Aaron Wall and all SEO's who were touting LSI and the Google Co-Occurrence Matrix as though it was fact and g##### was implementing it.  He hit them hard.  I wouldn't have wanted to be on the receiving end of that, highly embarrasing.  I bet they lost a lot of business over it. 

 

Dr. Garcia said the computing power necessary to implement LSI didn't even exist and all these SEO's touting it's benefits were a bunch of snake oil salesmen.

 

Rand Fishikin went scrurrying off into the night with his tail between his legs.  He didn't have a leg to stand on -->

 

Dr. Garcia is Getting Tired of LSI Marketing

 

I just checked and Dr. Garcia took down his blog that included the report.  It was pretty high level stuff, very interesting.  I didn't check  the Way Back Machine, though.  It should be there if you're interested.

 

Here's a couple of articles that discuss LSI, Dr. Garcia and the reasons that the computing power needed to implement LSI were beyond g#####'s capabilities. -->

 

The LSI Myth

 

What is Latent Semantic Indexing (LSI)?

 

That's why I don't think g##### has the capability to manage all these databases and the bandwidth to implement.

 

It may be that g#####'s database for Webmaster tools only includes people that sign up for Webmaster tools.  They may not have another database to track the rest of us.  To double up like that would take a lot of resources and they can't even index the full internet yet -- I believe that was one of Dr. Garcia's conclusions, but don't hold me to that one.  Somebody respectable said it, though.

 

I do believe that the image hot linking issue with g##### further supports this theory.  Also, that g##### was asking us to deal with dup content and other issues like that that would eat up their bandwidth seems to fit.

 

Although that was 7 years ago and processing capablity has grown, so has the internet and the number of products and services that g##### is trying to implement.

 

To me, it makes sense that g##### may have trouble tracking you if you unplug from all their services, especially Webmaster Tools, g##### Analytics and Chrome.  Lot's of people are saying that.

 

Here's Dr. Garcia's report, it was on the Way Back Machine -->

 

Dr. E. Garcia - Understanding SVD and LSI - Tutorial

http://web.archive.o...erstanding.html

http://web.archive.o...lar-values.html

http://web.archive.o...3-full-svd.html

http://web.archive.o...lculations.html

http://web.archive.o...occurrence.html
 



#12 bwelford

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:46 AM

Great post, Chuck. ... and of course you've got to ask why any corporation with any financial sense would go to all that trouble of trying to index the universe. Because it's there works for climbing Everest, but not when you get down to immense tasks that have no commensurate payback.  The vaunting ambition of Page and Brin can only push you so far.  I would have thought Google Glass and driverless cars were big enough toys to keep them busy while all the other Googlers figure out how to do the best for shareholders.



#13 bobbb

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 11:11 AM

I see about bandwidth. Now to digest the rest. Someone from the inside has to defect :)

 

WOW those were mouthfuls. Not sure I understood half one-quarter of it. But it really seems something hard to do in one language but now in all languages?


Edited by bobbb, 09 September 2013 - 12:27 PM.


#14 clandestino

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

I see about bandwidth. Now to digest the rest. Someone from the inside has to defect :)

 

Exactly.

 

So back t Dr. Garcia's work -- cipher, naught, naught.......



#15 clandestino

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:03 PM

The problem with defections is, g##### will sue them silly if they disclose anything.  The defector may have a chance if it's illegal activity they're disclosing.  But, g##### will still bury them in law suits, even if g##### can't win on the merits.  The problem is -- the way our legal system works, the defector may not have enough money to protect themselves from g#####.  They'll run out of cash before they prevail even though the law would be on their side.


Edited by chuckfinley, 09 September 2013 - 08:05 PM.


#16 bobbb

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:48 PM

The defector can stay in the closet. There are ways of leaking information. Governments do it everyday.

The defector would not be fighting the NSA or CIA, just G. Not really a national security issue. Doubt Sergie or Larry can make people disappear.

 

No one knew who deep throat was till he died.... well some must have known.



#17 clandestino

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 04:40 AM

Maybe I should get a janitor's job over there, LOL! ;)



#18 bobbb

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:25 AM

And wear an iWatch snapping photos everywhere. That was your post 700 so I guess you can use 007 as cover name.


Edited by bobbb, 10 September 2013 - 10:25 AM.




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