An Interview with Barry Schwartz

Kim: Your company, RustyBrick, has been building web sites since 1994. How did you come up with the name, "Rusty Brick?"

Barry: Probably the most asked question. RustyBrick originally was RustyBrickSoftware, when my twin brother, Ronnie, was trying to come up with a name for his mock company in high school, based on his initials, RBS. So he felt that Rusty and Brick go well together, and that is how the name came about. Later, when we turned this mock company into a real legal entity, we dropped the "Software" part of the name, and just kept it "RustyBrick". Most people assume it has to do with Ronnie and I (Barry) owning the company, hence the "R" and "B". But that is not the case.

Of course, I can't tell most people that, can I? After-the-fact, we came up with some real business answers to why we picked the name. Our early slogan was and kind of remains today, "Web Construction At It's Best", which symbolizes that we are more focused on the Web development side then the Web design side. Based on the "Construction", we said that bricks and construction go together, "we build your web site from ground up", the foundation is rock solid, etc. Hence the "brick", but what about the "rusty"? We say, a brick can never rust, which symbolizes something special about our company.

Today, I love the name. We are a tough company, we strongly believe in automation and leveraging the powers and strength of Web technologies. I feel that the name symbolizes the strength in our company and the technologies we develop. Our clients are proud of our name and so are we.

Kim: Did you do anything else prior to churning out web sites or has this been your main career choice?

Barry: We started RustyBrick in High School, I actually wrote up a business plan my 12th grade year in class for RustyBrickSoftware. After spending a school-year overseas, we noticed how our small client base was dependent on us. So immediately after returning, we organized a few things and formed a legal company under the name, RustyBrick.

There was no question that I would be in the Web business. The summer between my 11th and 12th grade years, I worked at WebMD's competitor, MediVault. It was a great experience, for both Ronnie and I. In reality, it was a Web startup, but little did we know that, at the time. Later, the company went defunct and WebMD (back then known as Healtheon) is still around today. But since then, we knew, Web is where we would be.

After forming RustyBrick, I worked part time and attended university full-time. Between classes, I used to run to meetings - it was a good thing Baruch College, CUNY, was located in midtown Manhattan. Ronnie focused on the programming aspects. And that is how it has always been. I oversee all business aspects and Ronnie oversees all technology related aspects.

Kim: As your business grew, what led you to be interested in the search engine optimization industry? Was it something that fascinated you, challenged you, was client-driven as a business need, or something else?

Barry: It was client driven, a client sent me some links to Danny Sullivan's articles and write-ups and it opened my eyes. Soon after, I had a request from another client to do an in person, three-day, training session on SEO and SEM topics. I quickly researched everything out there and became a, so-called, "expert" on the topic quickly. The clients loved the presentation; they still contact me today on consultation basis.

But the forums really caught my eye. The first was SEOChat forums, lead by Darrin Ward. I loved it because of the fact it was small and friendly. After being a member there for several months, I was allowed in as a moderator. Who would have known I would soon become a moderator at SEW Forums and your very own, Cre8asite Forums soon after. I just love the open discussion and helping others.

The dynamics of this business always keep you on your toes. Staying on top of it excites me and keeps me sharp. That is what fascinates me the most.

Kim: Rusty Brick is a full featured web development company keen on meeting client challenges, applying the latest technologies, and incorporating SEO/SEM. I especially appreciate that you and your design team strive to make sure usability and user centered design elements are emphasized. Since usability is often an after thought or even ignored by web site owners, what got you so interested in meeting this need?

Barry: Honestly, it has always been about the bottom-line. I have always been a huge Web statistics junky, even before Web stats were useful. I remember the days of manually processing logs in Excel to try to figure out top landing pages and click paths. All for the purpose of trying to increase site conversions through, what is now know as, "call to actions." Honestly, I do not consider myself or my company an usability or conversion expert. We just try to follow the basic principles, keep a clear navigation, click path and keep everything very simple to the end user. After that, we hire folks like you, to do a deeper analysis, when we are not achieving the results we expected.

Kim: You came out of nowhere, it seems, and burst into the SEM world spotlight with your seroundtable blog. It's now quite successful. With so much competition, why do you think your site stands out from the crowd?

Barry: Kim, if anybody knows this, it is you. I owe most of the success of the Search Engine Roundtable to you and the wonderful people are Cre8asite forums. Remember when I came up with the idea of providing a centralized place for the SEM community to locate some of the best SEM forum related threads out there? Well, I asked all the forums for support, in the form of guest authors and emails with some good threads. Not all the forums were eager, to say the least, to help out. But with your good ties, you helped me use your established credibility to help boost the credibility of the Search Engine Roundtable and myself. Heck, even Ammon Johns, all the way across the pond, called me to offer advice on some of the diplomatic and political issues I had early on. That is what kicked off the site.

Today, I just do my best to find the best threads at the forums. I try to post five to ten entries per day, with useful information. I always try to cover topics only discussed in the forums and always provide a link back to the forum or forums discussing the topics. I can't find every thread, I can't find every forum, but I really try my best. Then, of course, I have wonderful guest authors and an associated editor that I trust. It makes things easier.

Oh, lets not forget the search engine conference coverage we provide - that doesn't hurt.

Kim: You attend nearly every SES Conference held. Do you think Danny Sullivan should start offering awards for things like "Most Loyal Attendee", "Most Valued Speaker", "Top Conference Reporter"and "Most Loved Black Hat SEO?"

Barry: Good question that is a tough one. As long as Danny can offer these awards in an objective manner then I see no reason why he cannot. But I am not too sure how much it would add to the SES shows. I just hope I would win the Top Conference Reporter, ;).

Kim: You will be getting married to your beautiful fiancé, Yisha, next Spring. Will married life slow down Barry Schwartz?

Barry: I don't think so. I have a very dedicated work ethic. My schedule today is as follows. I get to work, normally between 7:30 and 8:00AM. I research and write blog entries normally until 9AM. I save some forum posts to write later in the day, normally between 9am and noon. If I have some free time to do more research in the afternoon, I will and then post more, if I find something interesting. If not, I'll cover it the next day. There are often cases, where someone will ping me with good information that should be posted on, Gary Price often pings me with the goodies. I rarely write at night, so I don't expect anything with that to change. Yisha will be leaving the house the same time as I, 7am. She probably won't arrive home until I get home, 7pm. So I don't see any slow down on my side, due to marriage.

Kim: I know you're involved with the development of Andy Hagan and Patrick Gavin's Text Link Ads program. You're willing to experiment with different types of ad programs on your own sites. Do you have any concerns about "banner blindness" or the increasing tendency of end users to not even see ads at all because they're tired of being bombarded?

Barry: Honestly, no. The banner ads on the Search Engine Roundtable are there for branding purposes. I enforce a non-animated banner, no larger then 292x29 on the left hand side premium sponsorship side. Why do I do this? For the reader, I know they are not here to click on ads, they want the information and not to be distracted from the information. But yet, I want to make some money from the site, so I accept sponsors, not "advertisers." The Google AdSense and YPN ads are really there for testing purposes, I am really into contextual relevancy and understanding how they differ between Yahoo and Google. I wouldn't be surprised if they are removed from the site in a few months. The text link sponsors are jus that, sponsors who want to show they support, without paying the premium sponsorship levels. I appreciate all the support.

Kim: You've been involved with the Internet for over 10 years and have witnessed the birth of search engines and how they've become a part of our every day lives. In your opinion, are we better off today with computers, Internet access and the ability to find anything instantly, or was life somehow "better" before the Google-age?

Barry: Since I can remember computers, I remember using those phones where you place on a modem and it makes those weird noises for you to connect to some obscure network. I was just a kid then and it is a bit fuzzy, so I forget the terminology. So I am a bit biased, I can't imagine any other type of world. The amount of information at our fingertips is truly amazing.

Kim: You started RustyBrick with your brother Ronnie, while still in college. It now has eight employees. With a company to run, travel engagements, a blog, and moderating at several SEO forums, are you feeling satisfied with your accomplishments or do you have any other ventures in the works that you can spill the beans about?

Barry: I am very happy at where I am today. I have been blessed to be in a situation to be able to achieve these things. All I can say about the future, is that I am really looking for talented PHP/MySQL developers, willing to work at my office in Rockland County, New York.

Thanks Kim!

Kim: Thank you for the opportunity to interview you, and congratulations on your historic engagement.