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Would You Do Business With A Company Run By Someone Who Hates You?


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#1 cre8pc

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 10:43 AM

I randomly asked this on my Facebook page and was surprised at the responses.  Thought I'd ask you all..

 

Would you do business with a company run by someone who hates you? Something I've been thinking about...

 

 

The majority said they would not.

 

So I expanded on my thought process...

 

 Thanks. I've been thinking about this a lot. Facebook has opened my eyes to how some people really are. To my face, they pretend to be nice but in reality, they are not nice people. Been thinking about my choices both in life but also in my businesses. If my new venture takes off as well as I'm told it will, I will need to hire help. Do I hire people who support hatred and violence,when my products are designed to bring peace and relief from pain? Do I purchase materials from businesses that support violence? I think too much

 

 

 

As more people seem to be supporting a violent, intolerant person for President, and are not afraid to share that information on Facebook, I noticed that several are business owners or closely related to business owners.  In one case, an entire Christian family unfriended me when I spoke against Trump, and they run a business I purchase from. Another Christian woman hasn't unfriended me yet but I feel this is because she wants my business.  And that got me thinking...do I want to support businesses owned and operated by people who are bigots, and support policies forged in hatred?

 

I don't really like boycotting anything, but I'm really thinking about doing that now.  I'm finding more and more people act one way towards me face to face but their true character comes out in social sites.  I already unfriended several cousins when I realized how cruel they are.  It was difficult but I hate dishonesty.  It's a real shock when you come to understand which family and friends really don't like you because you are not of their same religion or political party.


Edited by cre8pc, 01 March 2016 - 10:44 AM.


#2 jonbey

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 01:31 PM

Funny that they are Christians that seem to be reacting this way.



#3 cre8pc

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 02:00 PM

A client/friend stopped by to pay me and we discussed this and she said the same thing.  She doesn't understand their definition of Christian and neither do I.  I don't remember the parts on bigotry and hatred.



#4 kaybee0430

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 10:49 PM

I would definitely not do business with someone that hated me (unless their product or service was AMAZING and I couldn't get it anywhere else). 

 

I used to post too many things on Facebook. Aside from the silly quizzes and Buzzfeed articles, I had never been afraid to share my opinion. Now that I'm older and wiser, I've learned that so much of what we write on social media pages can be used against us. To me, it isn't worth it to share my opinion on Facebook when I know it will just start a fight with someone that has the polar opposite opinion. Now, I just use it to share pictures of my daughter - who could judge me for that kind of post? LOL. 



#5 Nny777

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 07:27 AM

In personal terms, I don't have people on my Facebook any more who support hate groups - in the UK that's the EDL, BNP and UKIP. I consider my Facebook feed to be a personal space (I have everything set to private) so anyone who disagrees with my left-wing ideologies doesn't really belong there. I can find challenging discussions elsewhere.

 

In terms of business, I would consider it a privilege to be able to pick and choose like that - as in, I definitely wouldn't deal with people who I deemed to be immoral if I had the choice. Unfortunately, a lot of the time we don't have the choice. I learned when I was working freelance that having a strong ethical standpoint can get in the way of making a living, as I couldn't refuse writing articles about gambling and weight loss drugs when I was struggling for money. I'm lucky now that my boss doesn't make me work on things I disagree with (for example one of the companies we work for sells fur products - that's a huuge no for me) but if he told me I'd have to, I'd have to.

 

So basically if you think you can still make your business work while being a little more picky about who you work with, then go for it! For all of us who can't!



#6 tommr

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 11:52 AM

I have a friend.  We have been very close friends for many years.  I would trust him with my life, and have.  We are opposed as far as politics go and we never talk about it.  I don't hate him and he does not hate me.  We do not let our personal views interfere with our lives.
Is a friend just an acquaintance I have casually met or a click on a profile?
For my own sanity, I try to not put people in pigeon holes.  I am not the authority of others behavior and we all have the right to be wrong.

It truly bothers me that folks seem comfortable grouping others for "their" convenience and piece of mind.
Not all Christians are the same.  All liberals are not the same.  All conservatives are not the same.  The color of our skin or ethnicity does not define who a person is either.
For the most part we may identify as one or the other but in reality we probably share some similar traits.
How can I be helpful to someone if I shut them out of my life only because I disapprove of their life or views based on a small view.
I find that tolerance serves me better than vitriol.
Tolerating others views helps me be open minded.
It used to be that issues of a political or religious nature were left for private discussion if discussed at all.  
But it is easy to slip up and make a public statement that is often misconstrued in one way or another.
To answer the question of "should I do business with someone who hates me"  I would be more concerned with what am I doing to make someone hate me.
I can not change anyone and often I have trouble changing myself.
I would hire whoever could do the best job and buy from whoever could give me the best price and service.
I would not perpetuate hate by hating back. 



#7 iamlost

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 09:31 PM

First, there is an enormous difference between personal and business. In the first I'm (mostly) allowed my prejudices, in the second I'm not. In the second I'm bound by law and regulation, best practices and business model; in the first by beliefs and customs, ethics and morality, as well as law and regulation.

A big problem with many people (and many organisations) is that they are unwilling or unable to separate the two, to refrain from requiring others to behave/believe as they. Fear of the stranger, of the other, is a driving force of tribalism. Simply put, they are unable to function within a greater civil society; they feel neglect at best, oppression at worst from the very structures and diverse populace that makes modern communities and the world prosper.

Fear bands them together, fear causes them to cast out. Plus power; never forget the power that accrues to those who cast the first stone. The shepherd benefits more from the sheep than the reverse.

So, I am very particular about my friends and continuing acquaintances. And much less so in my business dealings. I will not do business with certain organisations that engage in explicit acts against humanity whether they have been held accountable by greater society or not. That still leaves many persons and companies who I dislike for any number of reasons personally but with whom I will work.  

That said, the topic title is specific in asking whether I'd do business with someone who hates ME. My first thought on reading was wondering WHY someone who feels such would even consider my hire. That such a person would then be willing to pay me my rates and accept my services/products is, frankly, even more incomprehensible.

Then I realised (yes, I do enjoy rather a lot of privilege, sufficient that it took a moment to read more from the question) that it's just not who would hire or buy from me but all those selling goods and services in retail and on up the supply chain; the baker, the butcher, the candlestick maker, who may find something obnoxious/odouriferous about me when I want to browse/purchase from them. Moi? Surely you jest!

I had to really think this through but I'm quite confident that I've never noticed such intense dislike personally. Perhaps I'm fortunate, perhaps oblivious. I do know that numerous times in my life I have stepped up for others who were being mistreated or maligned both publicly and privately though not as often as I probably should. If I did realise a seller (or neighbour or passerby) so hated me my response would depend:
* generally: go fairly out of my way to NOT do business (or associate) with them even unto significant inconvenience, expense.
* BUT :) on occasion I might decide to deliberately get right in their face and make them stew in their bile or, if really fortunate, give my law-type-person the opportunity to stick it to them and...twist.
I do tend to stand up for others more intensely than for myself. Noblesse oblige? :) There's that artless privilege thing again!

I detest willful ignorance, repeat incompetence, cruelty whether deliberate, lack of compassion et al. That is the behaviour of the brute and the irrational not the human, especially not that of an intelligent, educated, literate, capable, kind, and thoughtful person (such my mother said I should strive to be).

Perhaps the greatest human fault is narcissistic personality disorder: especially the lack of empathy. With some it is regrettably innate, with far far too many it is learned behaviour. Our upright stance, convoluted frontal lobe, and opposable thumbs set us apart from other animals; empathy allowed us to congregate and accomplish wonders. Lack thereof sets each against all and strives to tear apart.

...let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
---Franklin D. Roosevelt, First Inaugural Address, 1933


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
---Martin Niemöller (various depending on audience)


So be sure when you step, Step with care and great tact.
And remember that life's A Great Balancing Act.
---Dr. Seuss, Oh, The Places You'll Go!, 1990



#8 cre8pc

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 10:15 PM

I got some excellent discussion feedback on my facebook page and here too.  I was vague there because the people I was thinking about follow me there and I didn't want to be confrontational.  What's happening is that there are several businesses where I live that are run by people who I've grown to feel uncomfortable with, the more I know them.  These are people who act high and mighty, judge everyone, have unkind things to say about anyone not like them, etc.  I feel conflicted purchasing items from them.  

 

However,  a wise friend asked if I could find the humanity in any of them.  I found I could, even in those who are not compassionate but can be in certain circumstances and it is wrong for me to judge them.

 

I got into a debate with an SEO on FB about Trump's Wall and the plans by the GOP to deport 12 million people.  I have worked with him and know that if he were to want to hire me again, I would be uncomfortable now that I know his views.  

 

It's a bit like those businesses who refuse to serve gay people.  I have friends who refuse to do business with companies who do that.  They boycott them.  So if a company has the right to not serve based on someone's difference, by the same token, I got to thinking that we have the right to shun businesses run by people who lack compassion or vote for policies we dislike.

 

And then I wondered...is doing this just adding more division?  Is it wiser to set aside differences?  

 

Martin Niemöller --- I love that quote!



#9 Nny777

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 05:56 AM

I think a lot of this depends on the kind of problems we might have with people. For instance, having different views from someone isn't the same as them doing something you find deplorable - I wouldn't want to support any business that was prejudiced against homosexuals or tested on animals and things. There's an important difference between disagreeing with someone personally and funding their ability to do things you disagree with. That's an important statement that should be made - you can't just let companies get away with doing horrible things by distancing them from people, cause people make companies.

 

I admit I kind of ignored the actual gist of the question, with a company that hates *me*. I don't care what a company or its owners think of me so long as I can do the work and get paid for it. Personal like/dislike is less important to me than respect in a professional environment.



#10 Grumpus

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 08:33 AM

I've been thinking about this a lot lately - the whole Tolerance thing.

 

I posted a question on my Facebook page last month. It was: "Is irony or hypocrisy that has made us so intolerant of intolerance?"

 

Understandably, very few people responded to it since it's a question with no right answer - being intolerant of intolerance is a paradox. We are supposed to be tolerant of those who have ideas that differ from ours. Then again, if we hold true to that, we must also be tolerant of people whose ideas make them intolerant of opposing ideas. It's not "tolerance" if we agree with them - that's agreement or acceptance. It's not tolerance.

 

For me, I have an answer I am at peace with. In order for it to work, though, I need to bring it inside myself. Would I do business with someone who hates me because of my beliefs? No. I wouldn't. But that's me. It's not because they don't believe what I believe, but it's because they are intolerant of "me" personally. I can't be forced to nor expected to support someone who wouldn't do the same for me.

 

Would I do business with someone who tolerates someone who is intolerant with me? Sure - because I need to be tolerant of tolerance as well as intolerance. I can't hold someone else hostage to my beliefs. They are being truly tolerant by not hating me for my ideas and also for not hating the intolerant person for theirs.

 

Then again, someone might, for example believe that everyone with blue eyes is a lesser human being than others. I have blue eyes so they must hate me - yet maybe they are willing to do business with me despite their beliefs. Isn't that a sign of tolerance?

 

Ultimately, it comes down to the individual.

 

Kim, you and I disagree on many political hot-topics, but our disagreements in these areas have never affected our respect and admiration for each other. We just disagree and tolerate each others beliefs because we understand the whole of the person isn't dictated by one or even several things that we disagree on.

 

If a person is absolutely intolerant of your ideas in favor of their own, then of course - I wouldn't do business with them. But, be careful not to let cynicism trick you into thinking that a disagreement on an idea is the same as hating the whole. It may very well be, but I've found that it's rarely the case.

 

Personally, I believe that any private person or business has every right in the world to not do business with any other private person or individual for ANY reason - or even no real reason at all. But, if I were to believe that, for example, that a bakery MUST provide a cake for a gay wedding even if that goes against their beliefs, then I must also believe that I MUST do business with someone who disagrees with any other belief I have - regardless of the popularity or unpopularity of that train of thought. Choosing to not do business with someone doesn't need a reason, in my opinion. And if you do have a reason, you are not obligated to share that reason. Your reasons are your own and I, nor the government, have any right to interfere or judge you on that.

 

My advice, here, is to be careful not to fall into the trap I've described above. You have to look in yourself and really decide what you believe in. Do you believe that others need to be tolerant of the things you believe? If so, you must also be tolerant of theirs. Do you believe that you can be intolerant of someone's intolerance? If so, then you have to accept that they can be intolerant of yours. Any other combination here is either hypocritical or a paradox that cannot resolve itself.

 

I know, I know, it's really hard in this day and age where society has managed to create so many paradoxes for us. The people who believe that abortion is murder tend to be the same people who want to upload the death penalty - while conversely, the people who believe that abortion is a choice want to abolish the death penalty. The people who are for increasing social programs are against the economic system which would pay for those programs while the people who are for the system that could support them are against the programs. These are confusing times.

 

I will not judge on any decision you make because, of course, in my mind you are free to believe whatever you want to believe. But, for your own sanity, don't create a paradox for yourself that you can never put into alignment. You will never be able to find peace and happiness if you try to adhere to unwinnable scenarios that are also driving your actions.

 

I hope that helps.

 

G.



#11 cre8pc

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 12:12 PM

Sometimes I slip up and this was one of those times.  I have a personal code tied to my beliefs, which are often directly tied to personal experiences and the results of life lessons.  Do not judge is one of those markers I have for myself.   It's related to do not make assumptions, which is what I was doing.

 

I had already figured this out but this weekend the lesson was made to stick.

 

I need help for my new business venture.  I'm making several products and 2 of them are presenting me with hurdles that required a consult with a professional seamstress.  I'm in an area I know nothing about and am learning around the clock because the demand for what I make is astounding and I'm not ready, or satisfied with the designs or some of the hurdles I'm running into in their creation.

 

A woman I went to high school with offered to come by and see if she could provide support.  I haven't seen her in over 30 years.  Her sister was a good friend of mine. She is ultra conservative.  On Facebook I see her posts and shudder at some of them.  I was nervous but needed her help.  I couldn't have possibly been more wrong about her!

 

We found common ground immediately.  She was warm, approved of my work, was as confused as me over some of the issues I am running into, and we rambled on and on about life, family, our kids, society...even gently into politics.  When she left, I was stunned. I was and am an idiot.

 

With Stock...we discovered our differences years ago, but I adore him!!!!    :bighug:

In fact, the only thing Stock has written lately that I really disagree with is his opinion of the new X-Files.  Even though it IS different and crazy big on the conspiracy stuff and definitely not the same as the old show and the ending was purely a FAIL, I love the actors and wish they would keep making more.  

 

Do not make assumptions.  It will bite you every time.


Edited by cre8pc, 08 March 2016 - 12:15 PM.


#12 tommr

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 01:05 PM

The biggest problem for me is the fact that I do not know what is in another persons heart.
I do not really know if they are being intolerant or just having a bad day.
Add to that a lot gets lost in miscommunication.
For example, and this is not meant as an endorsement or condemnation of a political figure:
When Donald Trump was beginning to be very popular in the news the pundants said over and over again this or that would sink him.
But it seemed like every-time he acted in a way that would spell doom his popularity went up.
So for the fun if it, and because I am a Star Wars fan I made a meme with his photo and the quote "it's no use, if you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibility imagine."
This was taken from words spoken by Obi-Wan Kenobi to Darth Vader.
I thought it was funny because I have no more fear of Trump than I do of Sanders or any of them for that matter and since I was neither for or against him what could be the harm.  
Others saw it differently.  
As a matter of fact anytime I post anything that is remotely political it can cause a problem for other people.
But in spite of that I forget and end up posting the deleting a post that becomes fodder for political grandstanding or just mean comments.

 

If I am to live my life by spiritual principals I should be always thinking of how my actions affect others.
Both good and bad.
But I don't always and then I owe an apogee.
And since I can't control what others think, their opinion of me is probably none of my business.

 

This way I can take care of my side of the street and hopefully gain some empathy and insight so as to put my self in other peoples shoes and let them live as they will.

It used to be bad form to discuss politics or religion, especially in public.
It is interesting to me that for a population that seems to know little of either, we spend so much time discussing and put so much emphases on both.
All I have to do is look at how many times I react to a headline with out taking the time and effort to drill down to the truth.

 

Bottom line is I gotta eat.  If I decide to live and let live I can do business with almost anyone with no regret.
My not taking a job, or changing a vendor will not alter they way they think.
And when I pick and choose based only on my narrow viewpoint, I do not elevate myself.

The principal "do un to others" makes no mention of imposed standards.  It is when I forget this that I am in conflict.

Glad to hear you are on a roll.
 


Edited by tommr, 08 March 2016 - 01:09 PM.


#13 earlpearl

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 05:52 PM

Tough questions.  

 

One has to make decisions that aren't easy.  Also its nice that you connected with that person whose "politics" through you off.  We can work with people we disagree with on various issues such as politics.  We may have great personal relations with them which we both appreciate and we both strive to avoid the sticky issues.   There could be others with whom we disagree with on "politics" or other controversial issues....and those will get in the way of working together.

 

If they hate me....I'm not going to work with them..or if I hate them I'm not going to work with them.   Each case is individual in my experience



#14 tam

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 07:27 PM

What's your definition of hate? It's a pretty strong term; thinking someone is wrong about something isn't the same as hating them. There is also a difference between 'hating' someone's actions and 'hating' someone.

 

Would I do business with a company that has different view to me? It depends. I've turned down advertising revenue from companies because some of their products (not necessarily the ones they want advertise) don't meet the animal welfare standards I believe in. On the other hand I'm quite happy to work with a company I think could do better if my putting aside my views will contribute to that.

 

I imagine if you surveyed you'd get a lot a difference between what people say they'll do and actually do e.g. they hate factory farmers so only buy freerange eggs, but at the same time they buy them from a supermarket that also sells non free-range eggs.



#15 bobbb

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 11:31 AM

Funny that they are Christians that seem to be reacting this way.

How is that? Remember, we [Christians] were deadly a few hundred years ago. Those genes are still there.



#16 bobbb

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 11:36 AM

 I don't remember the parts on bigotry and hatred.

= money = power = money

It became the money machine at  about 310 AD in Constantinople.



#17 bobbb

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 04:02 PM

I've been thinking about this a lot lately - the whole Tolerance thing.

Well put .

 

When you read all this it sure makes all the thoughts run around in circles. What I think of so and so and what he thinks of me and what I think of what he thinks of me and what he thinks of what I think of what I think he thinks of me.

 

If you had to think of the consequences of everything you do or buy or do business with and investigate every aspect of all the connections down the line and think of every step along the way you would end up doing what is called "thrashing" in the programming world. You would end up not being able to do anything. You would not even be able to end it all with suicide because that is illegal and all the consequences to those who would have to live with your action. The perpetual dilemma, to infinity, of never being able to cross a line because you must first get to the half way point.

I assume most here have some sort of financial portfolio. Now think of how that is invested all the way down the line to the smallest element. So did I contribute to that building which collapsed in that third world country or to the Bhopal gas tragedy or the exploitation of kids paid next to nothing making something somewhere which filled the pockets of some fat cat into which my portfolio is invested in. Substitute portfolio with buying at Walmart or Target or Amazon. I'm in a tight loop. I'm getting a headache.


Edited by bobbb, 09 March 2016 - 04:02 PM.


#18 Grumpus

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 04:52 AM


When you read all this it sure makes all the thoughts run around in circles.

 

 

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks these social paradoxes we've made for ourselves were created on purpose by people with nefarious intent. That's a whole other topic, though. :D



#19 cre8pc

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 12:33 PM

What's your definition of hate? It's a pretty strong term; thinking someone is wrong about something isn't the same as hating them. 

 

 

I agree.  It's a term used loosely, and I did that.  I prefer, when my brain is working, to use the term "dislike".

 

Hate is taught. It's an emotion, opposite of love.  There is no tolerance living inside hate.  No compassion. No acceptance of differences.

There are people who are exactly that and it worries me that there is a movement in the USA that seems to be encouraging them.  However, there is also a movement by others who are peaceful and want to get along with everyone.

 

I love this discussion!  These forums are a community of thinkers who approach life with thoughtful ideas.



#20 bobbb

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 02:21 PM

Could not resist this in the spirit of the above posts with thoughts running in circles.

If you hate hatred are you a hater? Should you be tolerant? (he said with tongue in cheek)

Oh that headache is coming back. :)


Edited by bobbb, 11 March 2016 - 02:22 PM.


#21 jonbey

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 04:06 PM

Maybe this is just what happens when life expectancy increases and birth rate falls - the cruellest, bitterest people start to outnumber the young, open-minded ones.



#22 bobbb

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:12 PM

Maybe this is just what happens when life expectancy increases and birth rate falls - the cruellest, bitterest people start to outnumber the young, open-minded ones.

Not certain of this. It depends where you place the line young, open-minded.

Remember, you can't trust anyone over 30.



#23 bobbb

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 10:36 AM

What's your definition of hate? It's a pretty strong term; thinking someone is wrong about something isn't the same as hating them.

So what the definition? An article from DW came into my email. Are they monitoring me? :green-envy:  No I'm on their subscription list

http://www.dw.com/en...-faq/a-19103744



#24 Grumpus

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 10:55 AM

Maybe this is just what happens when life expectancy increases and birth rate falls - the cruellest, bitterest people start to outnumber the young, open-minded ones.

 

Careful with assumptions like that.

 

The "birth rate" is a percentage of the whole. If there were 10 people in the world, and the birth rate was 50% you'd have 5 new people in the world. If you later have 100 people in the world and the birth rate is only 25%, the assumption above is that there are less younger people - but in fact, 25% of 100 people is 25 new people, 5 times as many as when the birth rate was higher.

 

There are LOTS more young people in the world now than there was 100 years ago - or even 40 years ago.

 

G.



#25 bobbb

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 12:30 PM

The immediate thought which comes to mind is the GEE HAD ITS which call themselves (well you know what they call themselves).
Betya they qualify for "cruellest, bitterest" and I doubt they are collecting old age benefits.

 

Mes deux cents CAD



#26 cre8pc

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 09:50 AM

With the escalation of violence in the US, this question may be swing around again.  Consider what could happen if the US becomes a true target for hatred and businesses refuse to do business with any US based company.  Everyone is watching the political situation here.  The news media makes it appear as though the majority of the US is a gun packing crazed angry person out to kill and remove anyone they wish.  

 

So. How is this good for business?  Could it become an issue?



#27 iamlost

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 02:38 PM

It's probably not so much a question of whether others want to or will do business with the US as whether the US gets uptight (again) and which US barriers are erected because of it. Most Americans are unaware of the number of industry (and specific company) subsidies, tax breaks, and tariff supports their government offers to their capitalist free market enterprises (that last was irony in case you wondered).

Just to keep it local (for Kim): the state of Pennsylvania alone spends 18 cents of every dollar in the state budget on corporate welfare of one kind or another.
Note: the worst offender is Texas where it's 51 cents - yup, over half.
And that doesn't include the Federal handouts.
The USA is a socialist country - just not for it's (non-incorporated) citizens.



#28 bobbb

bobbb

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 03:47 PM

Consider what could happen if the US becomes a true target for hatred and businesses refuse to do business with any US based company. 

Doubt this will happen. Ask your self what market does everyone want to get into (as in where do I want to sell my stuff?)

 

The news media makes it appear as though the majority of the US is a gun packing crazed angry person out to kill and remove anyone they wish

You have a point there as in where don't I want to go for a vacation.





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