Jump to content

Cre8asiteforums Internet Marketing
and Conversion Web Design


Photo

Remarketing Vs Email Or Both


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 earlpearl

earlpearl

    Hall of Fame

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 2477 posts

Posted 13 December 2016 - 07:21 PM

With regard to remarketing, I personally hate being on the recipient end of it.  (those f**king ads showing up every dang day, day after day after day after day after day...you get the picture).

 

Consequently I don't like using it in our smb's...but we do.  We use it in some smb's and not in others.  We are currently only using adwords remarketing.  If a searcher lands on our site, spends a minimal time there...they'll experience our remarketing.   Needless to say response is minimal.   We're currently doing this with one of our smaller smb's in a smaller regional/city market.  Over the course of the year, some couple of hundred thousand impressions and a click through rate of some low # below 1 % with a couple of conversions...(which are contacts).   For that we are spending a couple of hundred dollars.    At that rate a sale would pay for it--in multiples and a couple of sales would be nice.   But we can't tell for sure.   Does the remarketing generate a 2nd visit during which we then get a form contact.  Does the remarketing generate calls.  Which end up sales.  We can't tell.

 

For another location We also recently completed a massive amt of email blasting to old leads.  During this past October and November we had great high volume months, discounted like crazy, had high volume sales.  We blasted emails to old leads.  

 

Old leads.  Sort of like remarketing but different.  They contacted us and ultimately gave us their email addresses and other info and were entered into our own databases ....for things like email marketing.

 

For Oct and Nov, just estimating by virtue of their first contact dates and their purchase dates somewhere in the estimated range of 40-70 might have purchased.  Our email costs/ as part of a monthly package were minimal.  We payed excesses for the high volume....but my gut on excess costs on email and an estimate roughly in the mid range of those 40 -70 gives a possible ROI or payback of something in the range of about $100 of income for every $1 spent in excess email costs. 

Wow.  That is great.

 

Needless to say we don't get that kind of return every time.    One of the risks associated with remarketing with price discounts is that previous buyers could see the discount and could have become buyers.  Then they call back and complain.  Hey I paid $200 and now you are offering the same thing for $100.  I want a refund.

 

We always give a discount when it pops up.

 

Any comments or reactions?   Any suggestions?   What additional steps could we be taking?



#2 glyn

glyn

    Sonic Boom Member

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 3259 posts

Posted 14 December 2016 - 04:47 AM

Why can't you tell?

 

I start by asking the question of the client: You've got a person on the fence, they came to your website and now what can you offer them to get them back. In my case it's easy because OTAs are charging 16-24% in commission and remarketing costs are minimal. I run every aspect of remarketing through dedicated landing pages with no exit point to the main site (they've been there already!), a very clear offer and a very clear place to send an email with a contact form.

 

This kind of optimization has a large cost in terms of setup which you then get back over the months. Literally defining the triggers. Look in assisted conversion paths to gauge the timing of your remarketing better. There are significantly less overheads with remarketing against email stuff which can be open to no end of noise. I wanna look at the HTML 5 banners in GAdwords as I think that will help expedite it better.

 

As you rightfully say I think it is really important to define on paper your conversion and sales funnel when you take on board remarketing or a some form of loyalty scheme so that communication lines don't get corrupted by people having different offers open to each other and finding out one is paying more than the other - just don't let them know!

 

Glyn



#3 earlpearl

earlpearl

    Hall of Fame

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 2477 posts

Posted 14 December 2016 - 11:06 AM

Why can't you tell?

 


 

Glyn

 

Thanks for the response. 

 

Why? 

 

1.  We have not generated separate landing pages that don't go anywhere else.  Its for several reasons, good and bad.  But we have not.  We'll probably start doing so shortly with some separate smb's and or specific campaigns.   That is the biggest reason. 

 

2.  There is another consideration.  Our pricing and payment plans for the services  can change.  Its a process.  Over 90% of the time we are not taking automatic payments over the web off of a set fee....and where we do, because we'll also adjust payments and set up payment plans...the percentage of payments is terribly low.  Our services are of the unusual niche type and we've found we've had to walk customers through these processes to get sales first and full payments over time.

 

Thanks for the response....AGAIN. 



#4 glyn

glyn

    Sonic Boom Member

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 3259 posts

Posted 14 December 2016 - 02:44 PM

What i do with my clients is charge them a separate marketing budget, which is nominal, this budget gives us the flexibility to charge against the client. At enf of yesr they get a report on how this budget has been used. It's small, like 250 a month. You can then pitch with extras in your proposals and have it set aside for campaigns and ops that come up short term - black friday or other short lived campaigns.
G.

#5 earlpearl

earlpearl

    Hall of Fame

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 2477 posts

Posted 14 December 2016 - 04:01 PM

What i do with my clients is charge them a separate marketing budget, which is nominal, this budget gives us the flexibility to charge against the client. At enf of yesr they get a report on how this budget has been used. It's small, like 250 a month. You can then pitch with extras in your proposals and have it set aside for campaigns and ops that come up short term - black friday or other short lived campaigns.
G.

We/re (I'm) the client.  I'm not worried about billing.  I just like results.



#6 Ken Fisher

Ken Fisher

    Light Speed Member

  • 500 Posts Club
  • 799 posts

Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:21 PM

Anything new on this Dave? I'd like to give it a try, but I'm not getting far. New stuff is always a struggle :dazed:

 

I was looking for an easy peasy video explaining it all, but looks the adwords navigation has changed. No new vid's. And I get some 404's from the Adwords site trying to explain this and that. Smart guys eh? Check your links you freaks.

 

I'd like to remarket to those that have clicked on my ads, or those that have spent a considerable amount of time on product pages.

 

Am I in the right direction? It must be easy, huh? Nice comments glen.



#7 earlpearl

earlpearl

    Hall of Fame

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 2477 posts

Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:57 PM

Ken: Still don't like remarketing. We've done well w/email but we do have maybe 60-70k emails. Return on mail is very low but our $ are great and the cost is low.

See what Glyn has to say

#8 glyn

glyn

    Sonic Boom Member

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 3259 posts

Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:59 PM

What you want to do, and then read around the subject on, is Setting up audiences in Google Analytics. These are different to Google Adwords remarketing lists and as a result can be setup to respond with  much more detail than the AdWords lists.

 

In your case you would want to make sure that your ADS are correctly tagged and then you would simply setup an audience that would isolate that group. I don't use autotagging inside my adwords campaigns and so I am not sure what the audience type is - it's a segment of some kind that you would create the rule with. I create rules based on the campaign that I set via the UTM. Then what happens is that Google Analytics will tag all your audiences that have come in on a particular campaign - As they arrived with a click, there is your audience. You can then import these audiences into Google Adwords and then use them as part of the settings for remarketing. Equally you might also want to create lists which are built and contain only those people that have clicked your ad, because for example, if your list was very big and budget was tight you could then have this audience being used as a negative list and so people that had clicked on your ad, would not be targetted again. You can do stuff like this with confirmation forms as well.

 

Within Facebook you can now do this stuff as well but for me FB provides better filtering options for narrowing down the visitor.

 

In terms of application I like this example.

 

A person arrives by search on "dog lead". They then go off to another site, and are shown Google display remarketing for a coupon to get a dog lead cheaper. They go onto Facebook, and are served with a blog article highlighting tips on choosing a dog lead. This ends with a coupon to purchase. That is how you can use social and search together, but you have to avoid the bots, and the systems the platforms have developed to signpost your setup down a road that benefits their coffers and not your actual ROI.

 

Glyn.



#9 earlpearl

earlpearl

    Hall of Fame

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 2477 posts

Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:17 PM

Thanks Glyn:  BTW google offers display remarketing and more recently adwords remarketing.  We were introduced to it recently.  It needs significant volume to achieve it.  That might be difficult for local or niche sites.   We do use G remarketing on one smb.  I simply don't like it.

 

Glyn's comments on FB remarketing are interesting.  I'll get around to reviewing it.

We think for our larger longer running smb's our Email lists which are rather large work a lot like remarketing.  We are hitting people that took the time to contact us...not just folks that visited the site and moved elsewhere.  We assume there is somewhat more interest than  the folks that visited and didn't go beyond.

 

When we were reviewing adwords remarketing with the G adwords rep she referenced this seems to work "better" than display in Google.  Might be.  Since we speak so frequently with leads...we have a much better understanding of prototype leads than does G and its sales team.  In our cases....we strongly suspect and know we get revisitors.  We speak with them.  I'm confident they'll get to us.  They tell us they come back to the site with regularity.  I'd rather not line google's pockets with them more than we already do.   But we took that stance because we speak to them so frequently.

 

If I didn't have a good feel for their ways of acting...I might buy into the google sales pitch.



#10 earlpearl

earlpearl

    Hall of Fame

  • Hall Of Fame
  • 2477 posts

Posted 24 March 2017 - 12:12 PM

More thoughts on this. 

 

I think of remarketing and email campaigns as overlapping and trying to achieve the same point:  You are getting back to folks that checked you out before.   I haven't liked the results of our remarketing to date (which I don't manage--an on site manager at one of our smb's is running it.). 

 

Its a display acct.  Enormous enormous impressions in G and very few clicks..hence little costs.  My gut is as I've seen remarketing I find it obnoxious.  BTW:  moz must be using it now.  I see their display ads every freaking place.  Obnoxious to the core, imho.  I've seen it for our smb's, hotels, restaurants, some other retailers.  I usually see it so freaking much per user.   Just don't like it.   On our side the clicks are infrequent and the contact forms which is our CTA (call to action) so unbearably low...I don't like it.  

 

We've found that in our cases...advertising dollars work when its tied to intent.  We need it to actually get sales.

 

As I said, G has a new remarketing product that will show in adwords...not display.  I turned it on then turned it off before it kicked in.  I'm already spending too much with adwords.  Am looking to cut it.

 

We've had great success with recent email campaigns.  Cripes we've sent out enormous numbers of emails.  Flabbergastingly high numbers.  The cost is there, but its not really high.

 

The emails go out to contacts.  Basically and only leads that came into our system from the past.  Could have been form leads, or could have been phone calls.  We captured their emails.

 

We do have enormous email lists.  10's of thousands.  They go back years.  We mined those with major email efforts recently.  Everything was price oriented with discounts.  They've worked. 

 

We can't tell exactly, but we measure first contact dates of a lead against sale date.    If the first contact date was x months or longer from the date of purchase we assume the discount email campaign worked.  On that basis the email campaign vs costs worked enormously.  Enormous enormous ROI on the cost of the emails.

 

The return of sales on the volumes of emails is paltry.  A tiny percentage.  On a cost basis the return has been dramatic.  Remarkably better than the return on adwords.

 

Just spoke with a recent customer.  She did something of note.  So I followed up with a call.  We spoke about the "issue of note" (not having to do with her purchase)...then I got around to why she bought now.   It was the discount price email.  She was a lead from 6 years ago.  She referenced she always wanted this service.  Price was a reason why it took so long!!!

 

So she is simply a single anecdotal example of one thing we know works--price.  Its not the only thing...but its one.  I suppose we could try this with display remarketing.   I could look at it harder!!! 

 

I'm sure Glyn could speak to this well from the remarketing side.  He's been using it, and knows it far better than me. (obviously not saying much).

 

I guess in either case one has to advertise on compelling issue that draw visitors and more relevantly drive buyers. 

 

In either case you need very large numbers to make it work.  Large volumes of past visitors...or large numbers of emails.  Very large numbers!!!!





RSS Feed

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users