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I have been testing out my newsletters in Hotmail and just noticed soemthing rather annoying...

 

Initially it defaults to blocking attachments, images and links, for 'my safety'

 

Fair enough. So you select 'Show Content'

 

So, now you can see it's version of the HTML (a far cry from what IE or FireFox show, but still...)

 

Even though you have already decided to 'Show Content' it now has a warning symbol regarding the sender, giving me the chance to 'Mark as safe' or 'Mark as unsafe'

 

I select 'Mark as safe' - so for a second time I tell Hotmail that yep, I want this e-mail.

 

Now, it deems it nessecary to add another message at the top of the e-mail : You're subscribed to this mailing list. Unsubscribe'

 

It is being clever and just replicating the Unsubscribe link I have at the very top, and very bottom, of my newsletter, which I guess is handy and keeps the unsubscribe method consistant.

 

However, when you go to use the Unsubscribe. This is what it says :

We'll tell the sender that you don't want to be on this mailing list, though it may take them up to ten days to remove you. We may also share this e-mail with companies who help us fight junk

 

My bold. I could not believe I was reading that!! It's like they are determined to make the end reader report an e-mail they subscribed to as junk/spam!

 

Arrrgggg

 

</rant>

Edited by rynert

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Guest Autocrat

Okay... what type of HTL Email are you sending?

Have you consulted the general guidelines on HTML Emails?

Is there anything avaialbe from Hotmail/MSN regarding construction of HTML EMails?

Have you considered sending a dual-mime-type email, with links to a pure HTML version on your website?

 

Answer those, and I'll wsee what we can cobble together (HTL Emails required me to travel back around 7 years in my past to construct somethign that worked in 70% of webmail clients... and still failed with lotus :( )

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It is a pain in the backside, we just sent out a bulk email this morning after trying to pacify a client who wanted to know why it wasn't looking right in Lotus Notes :(

 

And coding up HTML emails, and having to use tables, and very little CSS is sooooooooo annoying generally.

 

With the amount of spam around these days though, I can understand the Hotmail stance there.

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Okay... what type of HTL Email are you sending?

Have you consulted the general guidelines on HTML Emails?

Is there anything avaialbe from Hotmail/MSN regarding construction of HTML EMails?

Have you considered sending a dual-mime-type email, with links to a pure HTML version on your website?

 

Answer those, and I'll wsee what we can cobble together (HTL Emails required me to travel back around 7 years in my past to construct somethign that worked in 70% of webmail clients... and still failed with lotus :D )

 

 

 

Well it is just a blend of tables and CSS worked to such a way to look a the best across the many formats there are... my rant was not so much about the nightmare of getting it looking decent across the different e-mail clients, more that IE seem to push you to report as junk anything, and even when they accept you have subscribed to it, and you choose to unsubscribe, they STILL flag it as spam!

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Guest Autocrat

Well, could email them and ask what they think they are doing.

 

I can understand their thoughts.... but if unsubscribing gets things flagged as spam, that means legitimate and requested/permitted emails owuld eventually get blocked as well.

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Hello,

 

In response to the general question of sending newsletters to Hotmail, you will find the MSN Hotmail and Windows Live Postmaster Services page helpful.

 

As to the specific question, insert a list unsubscribe header in your message header. (For more information, go to this page.)

 

When the user clicks the unsubscribe "button," the MSN postmaster will use the list unsubscribe header to either send you a message stating the specific user wants to unsubscribe; or cause the user to be unsubscribed (depending on how the list unsubscribe header is set up in your message header.)

 

If you are not using a list unsubscribe header in your mailing software, but you are participating in the MSN Junk Mail Reporting Partnership Program, then the MSN postmaster will not treat the request as a junk mail complaint, but will report the request through this program to you.

 

(Junk Mail Reporting Application / Update Form.)

 

Now, if you don't have a list unsubscribe header in your email message headers and you are not participating in the MSN Junk Mail Reporting program, then yes, ultimately users who follow the process you are speaking about, could end up hurting your delivery to MSN.

 

You will find also more details about the whole process of getting mail delivered to Windows Live Hotmail in Improving E-Mail Deliverability into Windows Live Hotmail, a pdf hosted by MSN on the page I referenced at the beginning of this post.

 

John Glube

Edited by JohnG

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Guest Autocrat

Well... that is damn helpful.

Wonder how many different schemes there are around... Hotmail, Yahoomail, googleMail... bet they all have something different.

 

Wouldn't it be nice to have a singel site that you can report spam to... and they all fed off that?

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Very helpful info.

 

I've started putting a link to a newsletter in the body of an email instead to overcome many anti-spamming issues.

 

You just have to have some really convincing teaser on the link to make sure they click on it. Once they're hit your site you can have whatever damn thing you want on that page.

 

Also... I find that having the newsletter on-site gives the lovely search engines something to index AND you increase your traffic by having people hit the information on your site, not reading it in their inbox.

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There's really only one fix. You need to work with a white listed email asp and pay a cpm to get your

mail properly delivered. This DIY approach is doomed when your talking about CSS and attachments, tables etc. That is a recipe to hit the junk folder every time.

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There's really only one fix. You need to work with a white listed email asp and pay a cpm to get your

mail properly delivered. This DIY approach is doomed when your talking about CSS and attachments, tables etc. That is a recipe to hit the junk folder every time.

 

 

 

Came back to this thread to ask a further question about Hotmail, not noticed your reply before - but I am not using a 'DIY' approach - but even if I was that has nothing to do with it - I am not talking about some computer deeming my e-mail as junk - I am talking about how Hotmail seems to try very hard to lead people to flag it as spam - even when it's not!

 

The question I was going to ask was : Anybody that uses Hotmail daily, did you notice a change over the last 2 weeks for how you report junk/spam?

 

I had 6 spam reports from my newsletter yesterday, there was only 1 for the previous 4 editions.

 

I am thinking they made a change to make it even easier to un-intentially flag something as spam!

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