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Amazon Pays Less Tax Than A Sausage Stall <Rant>

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Posted (edited)

But from the other side of the coin:

We (of the western world) all contribute to modern day slavery.
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-Issues/2012/0909/How-do-you-contribute-to-modern-day-slavery-of-human-trafficking

Mea maxima culpa. And what or where is my bank investing my money and pension fund? and how should/would I know? Like most, I am clueless and have never even made an effort to find out. Are they into Panama or part of it? What to do? Stand in front of a train?

Well that was off topic.

Edited by bobbb

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Ah yes, Amatino Manucci of Florence who would be totally unknown if not for the remnants of his double entry accounts... What the Arabic numerals did for mathematics double entry bookkeeping did for finance.

 

Given that the Koreans, and possibly others in the Orient, had double entry bookkeeping hundreds of years earlier I've long wondered if it was brought back quietly; Marco Polo's book published ~1300 and Manucci's account fragments are ~1299. A powerful secret if so and I wonder was it given/shared or sold? And by whom?

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I've always said that the two most important persons in one's professional life are one's attorney and one's accountant. If the cash flow warrants it add a tax attorney. As webdevs we know about the benefits of good site architecture and navigation. The same holds true for business.

 

 

 

From a long term business perspective I agree. If you are a webmaster with significant business this is worthwhile advice.

 

On the legal side don't settle for a generalist. Add an attorney, or more, who are specialists in the field that is required.

 

From my commercial real estate brokerage experience and specifically as it applied to tenants:

 

I worked with many attorneys, both expert on real estate law and non experts. When generalists or non experts reviewed leases they often missed critical points that would protect the tenant. After a while I would add the necessary protective language. (I cut and pasted industry relevant language and protections). I think (recall) they were always accepted and added by the tenants and the non expert lawyers. Without it the tenants would have suffered some significant cash losses.

 

On one case I recall working to sublease the space of a respected accounting firm whose previous lease didn't have those type protections. The space was priced significantly higher than it should have been minus the protections that should have been there earlier. Needless to say those competent accountants hadn't hired real estate smart lawyers nor did their prior RE broker provide them the protections I referenced above). Just sayin'.

 

Hire professionals who are expert in the relevant fields, not just friends.

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Posted (edited)

Amazon paid €16.5m in tax (reported through Luxembourg in 2016)

Spoiler alert:
Sound like lots of money for me but it's peanuts to Jeff. It's based on €21.6bn and works out to 7.638%. Like a worker making $50,000 paying $3.819 in taxes. Me thinks most people making 50k would be fine with a deal like that.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/10/amazon-uk-halves-its-corporation-tax-to-74m-as-sales-soar-to-7bn

This is Jeff's total bill but a $50k worker would have other "premiums" to pay taken at source except they are not called taxes. (in Canada anyway) Like Unemployment Insurance, contributions to the government pensions plans, health care plans, etc, etc. We are not complaining. It's just a more precise "tax" picture. And to be fair to Jeff, most of these extras we pay are also paid by the employer so it increases their €16.5m amount a bit.

Edited by bobbb

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And we get a perspective on Houston post Harvey; Hundreds of millions on sports stadiums and nothing spent on the two aging dams that made the news. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/houston-spent-massively-on-new-stadiums-not-its-aging-dams-as-harvey-proved-that-was-a-very-bad-choice/2017/09/05/94d006de-923a-11e7-aace-04b862b2b3f3_story.html?utm_term=.40963b2ebc9e

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Good news? probably not.

 

Paris and Berlin are mounting a joint offensive to tax internet giants based on revenues generated in EU countries
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/11/france-drives-eu-tax-blitz-on-revenues-of-us-tech-giants.html

Under EU treaties, tax measures require all members to back legal changes, meaning that Mr Le Maire would need support from low-tax countries like Ireland and Luxembourg for the initiative to become law.

So we can forget that.

The only way to see the original article on FT.com is from the search query below in Bing or Google or Yahoo but not DuckDuck or Yandex
France drives EU tax blitz on revenues of US tech giants

 

Guess they do not dare block those guys or cnbc

 

Even the snippet above is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy.

So is this a way to break the [pay] Wall?

It was not my intention -_-

Edited by bobbb

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Paris and Berlin are mounting a joint offensive to tax internet giants based on revenues generated in EU countries

 

Interesting... this just made me think of something....

 

I have lived most of my life in rural to very rural areas. One was a small community of 10,000 people and five stoplights that was the largest town in a county that took 1 1/2 hours to drive across. This town had very few stores and if you wanted to do any kind of shopping you had to spend three hours in the car to shop in a small city in the next state. Most people went there just to buy groceries. The small businesses in this town were some of Amazon's first casualties. The internet sucks the money out of these types of towns and deposits very little.

 

Maybe every sleepy little town should start an internet tax to reclaim a small percentage of the money flowing out to the internet giants?

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Interesting... this just made me think of something....

 

I have lived most of my life in rural to very rural areas. One was a small community of 10,000 people and five stoplights that was the largest town in a county that took 1 1/2 hours to drive across. This town had very few stores and if you wanted to do any kind of shopping you had to spend three hours in the car to shop in a small city in the next state. Most people went there just to buy groceries. The small businesses in this town were some of Amazon's first casualties. The internet sucks the money out of these types of towns and deposits very little.

 

Maybe every sleepy little town should start an internet tax to reclaim a small percentage of the money flowing out to the internet giants?

And before Amazon its been Walmart that has made life brutal for small business operators and has certainly been a death knell to the vitality of small towns and their centers.

 

BUT DON't DESPAIR. I know someone who can solve these issues and is DYING to get back into the fray. Hey Iamlost. Open a retail operation in a small town. You'll LOVE IT!!!!

 

Now on an entirely different matter Amazon is searching for a second corporate headquarters and has started an immense North American urban beauty pageant for its second corporate headquarters.

 

As per Amazon's own words, benefits and tax breaks offered will be part of the choice. Talk about all these manufacturers or sports venues that suck out tax money. This huge proposed new location may well top all previous requests and financings for a private endeavor. Probably top them all by a lot.

 

In a past life what I probably did the most as a commercial real estate agent was work as a "tenant broker". A tenant broker ostensibly scours all opportunities for relocation or staying put in a market, presents all the opportunities to the business and then engages in a search with the tenant to narrow down possibilities but also set up a "bidding" process to force landlords to lower their bids. Most of the time I did this during soft market conditions meaning lots and lots of excess space and lots of opportunities to get landlords to drop prices, increase concessions, etc. I sorta enjoyed it. In soft market conditions you can drive down prices a lot.

 

This Amazon search is the Mother of All Tenant Space Searches. Its going to be ferocious down in the pits as they narrow this list to several cities/urban areas. The cities/urban areas are going to recruit the larger states/provinces to help them give up a lot of tax goodies. As a former practitioner of this process I'd certainly like to be a fly on the wall listening in on all the negotiations. OTOH: Will the tax payers/residents, urban area that gets Amazon win in the long run???? I don't know. But I'm skeptical that the body politic will be big winners. Certain "players" will be big winners, but the region and the "body politic" I don't know.

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On this line you don't seem to be alone.

Economists see little payoff for cities that subsidize pro sports facilities

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/economists-see-little-payoff-cities-080004115.html

Well lets reword this a bit more accurately. I'm repeating what they and others have said and I've learned by reading them. ;)

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... and on this line:

And before Amazon its been Walmart that has made life brutal for small business operators and has certainly been a death knell to the vitality of small towns and their centers

Two Ex-Googlers want to make Bodegas and Mom-and-Pop Corner Stores Obsolete
https://www.fastcompany.com/40466047/two-ex-googlers-want-to-make-bodegas-and-mom-and-pop-corner-stores-obsolete

Well it is more along the line of fake news and click bait

It really is about the app name Bodega and how it might be politically incorrect for Latinos but it will impact Mom and Pop shops a bit like Walmart.

 

It is also a bit tuned to my post in New Ad Prefs In Safari Upsetting Industry

https://www.cre8asiteforums.com/forums/topic/94069-new-ad-prefs-in-safari-upsetting-industry/?do=findComment&comment=361612

Edited by bobbb

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BUT DON't DESPAIR. I know someone who can solve these issues and is DYING to get back into the fray. Hey Iamlost. Open a retail operation in a small town. You'll LOVE IT!!!!

I decided long ago that when I really truly retire I'll move to a real small town on an island and open a bookstore so I can read without ever being interrupted... then I remembered that my previous wet coast resident island has three (two independant, one chain) book stores. Of course it's populated with retirees, hippies, and artists. Problems, problems...

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La Pomme

 

It's Apple's turn:

Paradise Papers: Apple shifted billions offshore to avoid tax

http://www.dw.com/en/paradise-papers-apple-shifted-billions-offshore-to-avoid-tax/a-41270469

 

The iPhone maker insisted the new report contained several "inaccuracies" and said it made changes to its corporate structure in 2015, which were designed to preserve tax payments to the US, not to reduce taxes elsewhere. (Yeah right ;) )

Apple said in a statement that it pays taxes at the statutory US rate of 35 percent on investment income from its overseas cash. It added that it follows the law in each country where it operates. The EU and US were informed of the reorganization at the time, it added.

 

Yes we know it is all legal otherwise Tim Cook would already have an orange Armani jumpsuit. Tim, I think what people are saying is why are you so adverse to paying your fair share. We do. You are a big taker so why not a big giver. The more you give the more there will be for you to exploit later and take.

 

I just can't resist.

<rant>
You know who else got caught in Paradise? The one who is always preaching and always telling you how good HE is and all HE does. Look at ME. ME.
Yeah Bono!

Yes thanks for what you do; we are grateful. Now shut the F up, sing, and pay your taxes.
</rant>

 

That felt so good.

Edited by bobbb

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Yes, there are folks and orgs that are behaving illegally, however most on the various lists are simply following the rules to their advantage.

 

Frankly, I can't get worked up over that nor should anyone who takes a tax form deduction or credit. That said I absolutely detest the mealy mouthed hypocritical self righteous politicians who mumble about how 'wrong' it is but refuse to walk the walk and change things.

 

I do also detest those who speak out against personal welfare but line up for corporate welfare handouts. Idjits and, to channel EGOL, weasels one and all.

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Agreed, and I suspect if we were in their shoes we would probably do the same since it is legal. We don't do it because we don't have any we can hide but it still felt good.

 

I would not write a cheque for $2000 if my CRA(IRS) bill was $1892.75

 

mea culpa

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